Ethics Class - catch up session, 10am-4pm

[brambless.livejournal.com]

Tara posts the class list on the door, as promised in her email, detailing the gaps in each student's participation. Penned at the bottom in a neat round hand is a note: Some of you may have discussed these with TAs out of class. Please inform me if this is the case.

She looks happy and well-rested as she sets up discussion stations around the room.

[ooc: I'll put names on the comment threads for the people who haven't completed them, rather than listing up here. Because I'm odd that way.]

Comments

The Evil Within

[brambless.livejournal.com]

"Identify something you have done in the course of your life that another person might consider to be evil. To clarify: I don't care whether you think it's evil or not. Try to look at your life experiences from the perspective of an animal rights activist, a member of the Christian Right, someone who lived five hundred years ago. Then, justify your actions, and identify whether you would make the same choice again given a similar situation."

For Bridge, Evie, Lindsey, Logan, Shane, Stark, Veronica, and Xander.

Re: The Evil Within

[shane-mcc.livejournal.com]

Pulling out her pen, Shane opens her notebook to a blank page... she doesn't need any time to decide what she should write down. Lips pressing into a thin line, her eyes narrow behind her glasses as she writes down her answer on the page.

"Back when I lived in West Hollywood, I turned tricks. I did it so that I could eat and have a place to sleep."

A faint crease appears between her eyebrows as she sits back in her seat and considers the second half of the assignment. Taking a deep breath, she lets it out slowly as she writes down her answer.

"I'd make the same choice again."

Re: The Evil Within

[soldtoarmenians]

Xander notes the questions that he'd listed as not having discussed, and suspects that they're from classes that happened before he transferred in, since they're not at all familiar. Tara did say there'd be some makeup work, though, so he nods and considers the first question.

"I... told someone a lie, that ended up in somebody dying. Or, well, getting sent to Hell; he was already dead. The person I lied to -- a friend -- was trying to kill him anyway, and it needed to happen, because the whole world was in danger if it didn't, but... I guess you could say I withheld information that might've made a difference to my friend.

There are definitely people who'd say that was wrong, maybe even evil. Especially since I didn't like the guy, and sure didn't cry too hard to see him gone.

But you know, I'd do it again - because I honestly believe that if I'd told the truth at the time, my friend would've ended up dead, and maybe the rest of us too."

Re: The Evil Within

[stykera]

Stark frowned thoughtfully. He had not contributed to a lot of topics. It would be better to write things down. More time to think that way and less opportunity for freaking out.

We robbed a bank once. Twice, really, but it was the same bank and only because the first time we didn't end up with money, just these creatures that were eating the ship. It was a good plan, except when it didn't work.

We had to. To save them, the slaves and then the ship. There was a lot of slaves and one of them was my friend's big guy who liked to hit me's shipmate's son. We were going to rescue him and the others. We got him out, and the money the second time and our other friend who got captured because he always gets captured.

I'd do it again. Do it right this time. Nobody would die.

Re: The Evil Within

[egyptianlove.livejournal.com]

Evie frowns. She starts scribbling notes, then pipes up. "Well, I pushed my brother down a half-flight of stairs once. But he deserved it, because he'd put salt in my tea that morning." She pauses, tapping her pen against her lips. "Yes, I think I'd do it again. Because, well, he never put salt in my tea again." She gives Tara a hopeful smile.

Re: The Evil Within

[bridge-carson.livejournal.com]

"Uhm," Bridge says, looking down at his desk. "I kinda... well, my dog? RIC? He's SPD property, and when I came here, I brought him with me. So, that's stealing, which is, technically, wrong..." he pauses for a second. "But on the other hand, no one at SPD is really using RIC to the best of his abilities, and they probably don't even care that he's gone, whereas here he gets to run around and help people and do fun stuff, so yeah, I'd do it again."

Re: The Evil Within

[marsheadtilt.livejournal.com]

Veronica writes:

I turned my boyfriend in to the police as a murder suspect. At the time, I had evidence that led me to believe he could be involved. In retrospect, I should have talked to him and allowed him to explain the evidence to me before flying off the handle and turning him in to the authorities.

I'd like to think I'd react differently if placed in the same situation, but I'm not sure.

Justifiable Murder

[brambless.livejournal.com]

"Under what circumstances would you, personally, kill someone? Try to consider euthanasia and what you might do under duress as well as self defence."

For Allie, Bridge, Evie, Lindsey, Logan, Piper, Shane, Six, Stark, Veronica, and Xander.

Re: Justifiable Murder

[shane-mcc.livejournal.com]

Drawing a line beneath her answer for the first discussion question, Shane then brings the pen up to her mouth, chewing thoughtfully on the cap for a moment.

"I would kill someone if they seriously injured one of the people I love.

Self defense: I might... but that would depend on who it is trying to hurt me.

Euthanasia: If there was no chance, no hope at all, and I knew the person wanted it to be that way, then yes.

Under duress: I'd try to find a way so that I wouldn't have to."

Re: Justifiable Murder

[absolutesnark]

"I would kill someone in self-defense, especially if a loved one was being threatened. And I wouldn't hesitate to defend myself if my life was in danger. I would consider euthanasia if the person suffering asked me to."

Re: Justifiable Murder

[soldtoarmenians]

"Self-defense, and defending people who were being attacked. Stopping somebody who was gonna cause widespread death and destruction, too, or already had.

Not saying I'd be happy about killing somebody that can walk and talk and think, but if all the use that for is to hurt other people, and there's no way they're gonna change?"

Xander thinks hard about the other options. "I... don't know if I could kill somebody I cared about, even if they asked me to. Mercy killing, I mean, not if they headed up to the clocktower with a semi-automatic."

Re: Justifiable Murder

[stykera]

There are people I would kill to protect. I would do anything to keep her from dying again. I could kill to save myself, but I don't know if I would.

Helping someone to die, someone who wants to go and who is very ill, that's not murder. I would do that. Have done that.

Slavery

[brambless.livejournal.com]

"Some of you never debriefed from the slavery assignment. This is your last opportunity to do so. What did you learn? What were your challenges? How did it feel?"

For Allie, Buffy, John Connor, Lisa, Stark, Sydney, and Veronica. Chloe, Faith and Charlie, I've received your evaluations of your partner, but not your feedback on your own learning.

Re: Slavery

[http://users.livejournal.com/_gottahavefaith/]

Um? I learned that owning a slave would suck. It was awkward, and I really really didn't like having to be responsible for everything that he did.
Maybe like, if it was a normal thing, it'd be easier. But it wasn't, so it's not.

Ownership

[brambless.livejournal.com]

"What can you own? Can you own land? If so, how far down under the soil do you own? Can you own an item? A pet? Another person? Your own body? What, in this world, can you unequivocably call yours?"

For Angel, Buffy, John Sheppard, Lindsey, Lisa, Logan, Charlie, Quinn, and Rory. Monday students were not given this question - if you would like to answer it, it counts as extra credit.

Re: Ownership

[shane-mcc.livejournal.com]

Drawing a line under her previous answer, Shane considers this next set of questions. She'd been in Monday's class at the time so she hadn't really had much of a chance to think about it... and extra credit couldn't hurt, even though, technically, she wasn't getting any for her participation in class.

"The Indians didn't believe that we owned land and I guess I kind of agree with them. It was here before we were. How can anyone own rocks and trees?

I think if you make something with your hands, you can own it then, but not if you just buy it. Owning people and pets ... you own them only as much as they let you.

My own body... I guess that depends on what I want to do with it. If I wanted to kill myself, they wouldn't let me because euthanasia's illegal. So does that mean the government owns my death? If I got pregnant but wanted an abortion, in some states, it's illegal again so... same thing.

I think... my soul is... mine. My mind. My voice. My heart. You can't touch them, but they're like my rocks, my trees."

Duty of Care

[brambless.livejournal.com]

"I'd like you to think about the 'helpless' - those people in society, including children and the mentally disabled, who are unable to care for themselves. What are they owed? What do they owe back, to their parents and their society? What are their responsibilities, and when is it appropriate for them to assume the responsibilities of a 'normal' adult?"

For Allie, Angela, Angel, Archie, Beka, Bridge, Buffy, Chloe, Evie, John Connor, Lindsey, Lisa, Charlie, Phoebe, Quinn, Six, Sydney and Veronica.

Re: Duty of Care

[chasingangela]

"I think people who can't care for themselves are owed the best care society can provide for them -- food, shelter, interesting stuff to do, all of that.

They owe back ... I guess it, like, depends on their capabilities? I mean, a 16-year-old like me is pretty much responsible for taking care of herself. An infant just isn't. I guess kids owe their parents .... god, I hate to say respect, 'cause it's not like you get to choose your parents, or like all parents deserve respect. But I guess respect comes closest to what I mean -- stuff like, recognizing that they're people and have lives and don't necessarily always want to be a mom or dad first, and giving them space to exist.

And I think the responsibilities are to care for yourself as best you can, and become an adult when you're ready."

Superheroes!

[brambless.livejournal.com]

"Assume you have superpowers. What superpowers is up to you - even if it's just wealth and status - but to put us on a level, we're all extraordinary. This is just us, though. Assume also that you're in the vast minority, and the world still consists of ordinary human beings.

What are your responsibilities? To your family, to your friends, to your society - to yourself?"

For Archie and Faith.

Re: Superheroes!

[http://users.livejournal.com/_gottahavefaith/]

None. Just because you have, like, extra powers, doesn't mean you're obligated to do anything with them. I mean, what if you didn't want them? Or you hated them? Why should someone who has extra powers be any more obligated to do something then someone who doesn't? It's not fair.

You have no responsibility to your family, unless you like them. Just because you're related doesn't make you, like, indebted to them. You should always look out for your friends. Society- hah. You owe society nothing. And, obviously, you owe yourself the most.

When to Intervene?

[brambless.livejournal.com]

"What right do you have to save anyone? Without their express, explicit permission, how can you be sure you're doing the right thing? Come up with a scenario where intervening to save someone would be the wrong thing to do."

For Allie, Angel, Archie, Beka, Bridge, Buffy, Callisto, Chiana, Chloe, Evie, Faith, John Sheppard, Lindsey, Lisa, Parker, Piper, Quinn, Six, Stark, Sydney and Veronica.

Re: When to Intervene?

[miss-monochrome.livejournal.com]

Well, I guess you really never can be completely sure whether or not saving somebody's the right thing to do. I mean, say I somebody was planning on...on jumping off a cliff. I wasn't They weren't trying to kill themselves, just prove that they were...were still alive, but there was a chance of getting killed that way. If somebody managed to prevent it, I'd they'd most likely try to do it again, but maybe with something more...more dangerous that *would* kill me them. I that case, wouldn't saving them the first time around just...just make the situation worse?

Memory

[brambless.livejournal.com]

"This is your scenario. Your loved one is suffering - a horrible event or memory that is tearing them apart. You have the ability to remove the memory of that event, excising it from their mind like a cancer. Assuming you must make this decision on your own, without any cue of what your loved one wants - what do you do?"

For Archie, Chloe, Faith, Lisa, Sydney and Veronica.

Re: Memory

[http://users.livejournal.com/_gottahavefaith/]

"That's horrible. You never have the right to do something to someone without their permission, even if you think it's for the best. I mean, everyone's got some sort of fucked up thing in their past, but you've got to learn to suck it up and deal, or you'll never be able to function in society. Or out of it- just like, generally. You can't like, take part of a person away from them- that's horrible."

Punishment

[brambless.livejournal.com]

"There are five primary classes of punishment; corporal, capital, imprisonment, fines and behavioural rehabilitation.

"Pick two of these. Defend one, and advocate another. What are the ethical issues surrounding them? In what circumstances are they appropriate?"

For Bridge, Chiana, Chloe, John Sheppard, Logan, Stark, Sydney and Veronica.

Re: Punishment

[stykera]

Capital Punishment...
Killing someone for a crime isn't justice. Vengeance is not justice. More deaths won't solve anything. And it's too final. What happens if they were innocent and you killed them?

Behavioural Rehabilitation
Seems like the best option. Yes, there are some who will never change, but there are others who can and will. It's better than killing them, or locking them away forever, isn't it?

If you ruled the world...

[brambless.livejournal.com]

"Let's pretend that you run the world. This world, that we inhabit together in all our diversity, even if your home world is very different.

"How do you a wrongdoer who is a danger to society and the people within it? Explain to me your plan for punishment and/or rehabilitation, and justify why you think it would be effective."

For Angel, Archie, Belthazor, Bridge, Buffy, Callisto, Charlie, Chiana, Chloe, Faith, Lindsey, Logan, Phoebe, Piper, Quinn, Rory, Six, Stark, Sydney and Veronica.

Re: If you ruled the world...

[psycho-barbie.livejournal.com]

"Well, it's been my experience that killing someone who does wrong to you and yours is a fairly effective means of preventing repeat behavior."

Teacher/student conferences

[brambless.livejournal.com]

"If you'd like to talk to me about anything, including feedback on your class performance, come see me."

Re: Teacher/student conferences

[master-of-fear.livejournal.com]

Jonathan walks into Tara's office on Monday morning as if he has no troubles.

"Morning Tara," he calls, "How was your holiday?"

Emo Closet

[brambless.livejournal.com]

Here if you need it.

OOC Discussion

[brambless.livejournal.com]

*dances around, singing*

Re: OOC Discussion

[romanywitch]

Is this just a catch-up session for the students, or would these also count as office hours?

[romanywitch]

Jenny stops at the door to the Ethics classroom, hoping that Professor Maclay is around. She peers in and sees a young blond woman.

"Hey," she says, knocking on the door frame with one hand, coffee mug held in the other. "You Professor Maclay?"

[brambless.livejournal.com]

"Tara, yes," Tara replies. "Can I help you with anything?"

[marsheadtilt.livejournal.com]

[ooc: omg, i suck hardcore. i was out all day - will make up all my questions for both girls by the end of the week!]