fandomhigh | Ethics Class - catch up session, 10am-4pm

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ethics

Ethics Class - catch up session, 10am-4pm

Tara posts the class list on the door, as promised in her email, detailing the gaps in each student's participation. Penned at the bottom in a neat round hand is a note: Some of you may have discussed these with TAs out of class. Please inform me if this is the case.

She looks happy and well-rested as she sets up discussion stations around the room.

[ooc: I'll put names on the comment threads for the people who haven't completed them, rather than listing up here. Because I'm odd that way.]

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"I'd like you to think about the 'helpless' - those people in society, including children and the mentally disabled, who are unable to care for themselves. What are they owed? What do they owe back, to their parents and their society? What are their responsibilities, and when is it appropriate for them to assume the responsibilities of a 'normal' adult?"

For Allie, Angela, Angel, Archie, Beka, Bridge, Buffy, Chloe, Evie, John Connor, Lindsey, Lisa, Charlie, Phoebe, Quinn, Six, Sydney and Veronica.

"I think people who can't care for themselves are owed the best care society can provide for them -- food, shelter, interesting stuff to do, all of that.

They owe back ... I guess it, like, depends on their capabilities? I mean, a 16-year-old like me is pretty much responsible for taking care of herself. An infant just isn't. I guess kids owe their parents .... god, I hate to say respect, 'cause it's not like you get to choose your parents, or like all parents deserve respect. But I guess respect comes closest to what I mean -- stuff like, recognizing that they're people and have lives and don't necessarily always want to be a mom or dad first, and giving them space to exist.

And I think the responsibilities are to care for yourself as best you can, and become an adult when you're ready."

[[OOC: I didn't realize Phoebe didn't do these. *flails*]]

Phoebe thinks for a long moment.

"Why do we have to break it down into what they owe and what they're owed? If someone is honestly unable to care for themselves in the appropriate way, it's only right and humane to help them in what they need."

[ooc: I thought as much. It's easy to lose track, don't worry about it.]

"Well, if it's right and humane to help them... that's what they're owed, in a moral sense. Do they have any responsibilities? Does being a child, for example, allow you to do anything you like?"

[[OOC: *loves* Thankfully you, Camulus and Sara Sidle know that Phoebe is always there. :)]]

"No, being a child doesn't allow you to do that. There are structures and rules that your caregivers try to give you to help you learn and grow,"

"Alright... are any of those across the board? Things that don't depend on the caregiver, but are simply part of being a member of a society or a family?"

Phoebe thinks about this for a long time.

"Rules and responsibilities come with being a living, breathing creation." She wrinkles her forehead. "The problem is that people have differing opinions of what are wants and what are needs."

"I'm not asking what people think, Phoebe," Tara reminds her, humour crinkling her eyes. "Just you. What do you believe the responsibilities of the child are?"

Phoebe nods.

"In my opinion, the child's responsibility is to respect and obey their parents. However, in doing this, it doesn't mean that the child has to do it unconditionally. The child is entitled to respect and compassion as well."

Under her last answer, Quinn writes (and crosses out a lot):

~~I don't think mentally disabled people really owe anything back, because it's not their fault they're like that~~. ~~Maybe their parents should owe something back. Depending on how~~

Kids have to do something when they're old enough to earn a living. If I had to do it, so can other people.

This one's hard.

"Children take little responsibilities all of the time as they grow. They get older, they learn more things. They have a responsibility to honour and obey their parents. However, they are also owed safety and security when they are unable to provide it for themselves."

"The helpless are owed enough for basic sustenance, and such items as to keep them comfortable; no less is owed to anyone. If it's a congenital thing, or something that alters an otherwise healthy person without the chance that they'll regain some sort of normalcy and compitency, then there is no expectation of repayment; if the effect is temporary (and by temporary, I mean a few months to a few years, with meds and rehab and such), then they have an obligation to pay back that expenditure, whether it be in cash or by helping those in similar situations."

"Of course, this is all in the ideal world. As things approach less ideal, then these peoples get shuffled further and further back onto the back burner to the point where no one bothers to care beause there's more important things to worry about. ~~Like the robots~~"

Evie thinks about this question for a moment before she answers. "I don't know. This culture is so different than mine in this respect. Parents take care of children, and chilren, in turn, take care of parents, when the parents can no longer care for themselves. Society doesn't owe people anything; it is a product of all the relationships between people." She pauses. "I don't know about mentally disabled people. While I think the way my society treats them is cruel, it's...it should be a family affair."

"If somebody can't take care of himself or herself, we need to make sure they're taken care of. It's just the right thing to do. You take care of others and hope that somebody'll do the same for you if you ever need it. I guess you just sort of do what you can, for yourself and society as a whole. As for adult responsibilities, you take those on when you can. I don't think you can really say that somebody's an adult purely based on age."

"Um, I think anyone who is currently helpless- like... kids, I guess, but will be able to support themselves later in life- they owe the same courtesy to the people who took care of them, if they needed it because of illness or injury. Those who might never be able to care for themselves... that's different, and I think they're owed things like food, and shelter, as well as emotional and mental attention- cause even with food and a roof over one's head, I don't think that's really enough. As for "when are they ready to assume responsibilities?" well, every region seems to have their own idea of Legal Age, or whatever, but that seems really arbitrary, because they're all so different. But there's really no way to evaluate things on a case by case basis, so most parents try to teach their kids enough so that they'll be ready by the time their laws say they should be."

Veronica writes:

Able minded and bodied people have a clear responsibility to take care of those who can't take care of themselves. And they don't owe anything back because it's not their fault they can't take care of themselves.

Allie writes:

People in a position of authority, doctors, police, etc, have a duty to take care of those unable to care for themselves. And people who need care have a responsibility to accept the care and make an effort to learn to care for themselves.

It depends completely on the situation, but I believe in compassion and mercy. I think even the helpless are, on some level, responsible for their own welfare, but we should assist them not out of a sense of social duty but because of our humanity demanding it.

Those of us who can have a duty to ~~help the helpless~~ take care of those who can't take care of themselves. Passively allowing someone else to suffer is just as wrong as actively causing the suffering in the first place. By choosing not to help, you have made their pain your fault.

No price can be demanded for this, particularly from parents to children. It is a parent's job to take care of their child. The child owes nothing for this.

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Ethics Class - catch up session, 10am-4pm

Duty of Care

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