Destiny & Free Will, Week VI [Monday, Period 4]

[atreideslioness]

As students arrived today, they might notice Ghanima had actually written on the chalkboard for once:

Sarv-gyaata  |  Sarv-samarth  |  Sarv-vyapt 

"Good morning, students," she said clearly.  "Today we study the the 'omni' categories.  Omniscient, omnipotent, and omnipresent."


"Omniscience is the capacity to know everything infinitely, or at least everything that can be known about a person, including thoughts, feelings, life and the universe, and so on," she said, beginning to write on the board.  "In monotheism, this ability is typically attributed to God. This concept is included in the Qur'an, where God is called "Al-'aleem" on multiple occasions. This is the infinite form of the verb "alema" which means to know. In the Bible, God is referred to often as "The Great I Am," among other similar names, which also incorporates His omnipresence and omnipotence. In Hinduism, God is referred to as sarv-gyaata," she pointed at the words on the board, "which means omniscient, sarv-samarth, or omnipotent, and sarv-vyapt, omnipresent."

"There is a distinction between inherent omniscience, which is the ability to know anything that one chooses to know and can be known, and total omniscience, which is actually knowing everything that can be known."  Ghanima smiled and tapped her chalk against the board.  "It might sound like more semantics to you, but I promise, it's a very large difference." 

"Some modern theologians argue that God's omniscience is inherent rather than total, and that God chooses to limit his omniscience in order to preserve the freewill and dignity of his creatures.  Certain theologians of the 16th Century, comfortable with the definition of God as being omniscient in the total sense, to rebuke created beings' ability to choose freely, embraced the doctrine of predestination."

"Our second topic, omnipresence, is the ability to be present in every place at any, and/or every, time; unbounded or universal presence. It is related to the concept of ubiquity, the ability to be everywhere at a certain point in time.  Some argue that omnipresence is a derived characteristic: an omniscient and omnipotent deity knows every thing and can be and act every where, simultaneously. Others propound a deity as having the "Three O's", including omnipresence as a unique characteristic of the deity."

"Omnipotence is where it starts to get a bit trickier," she said thoughtfully.  "Belief that God can do absolutely anything can be thought to yield certain logical paradoxes. A simple example goes as follows: Can God create a rock so heavy that even he cannot lift it? If he can, then the rock is now unliftable, limiting God's power. But if he cannot, then he is still not omnipotent. This question cannot be answered using formal logic due to its self-referential nature. Two excellent examples of this are the liar paradox and Godel's incompleteness theorem. This problem led in the High Middle Ages to developing the concept of mathematical infinity, and laid the basis for infinitesimal calculus."

"A good example of this trinity might be the animal transformations that seem to plague the island at times," Ghanima said.  "Say, perhaps, I had a TA that turned into a bird, or a student into a rabbit or kitten." 

Not that it had ever happened.  Really.  Or that she had recorded this same lecture last year, with Reno as a tiny red chicken.

"One could argue that an omniscient god would, one, know of the student body's habit of thumbing their collective noses at destiny.  He, she, or it, would also know of every thought a person has ever had, or ever will have.  The omniscient god would know that being something cute and fluffy would be rather embarrassing for most students, who tend to think of themselves as fighters, and therefore rather fitting. Two, an omnipotent god could easily make someone a fluffy birdie, and finally, an omnipresent god would be able to enact it in the here and now." 

"So, I would like you to pair up and discuss.  What do you think is most important for a divine being that's writing destiny?  Which of the Omnis is most compatible with the idea of free will?  Which is the most incompatible?  Do you feel omnipresence is part of the other two, or is it something that can stand separately.  Can you be omniscient if you are not omnipresent?  Team up, and decide."

"Oh, and anyone who missed last week?  Please come see me at my desk after class."


[OOC:  OCD UP!]

Comments

Sign-In #6

[atreideslioness]

In an omnipresent manner!

Re: Sign-In #6

[not-jaded-yet.livejournal.com]

Jennifer Walters

Listen to the Lecture

[atreideslioness]

Take notes, pass notes, just don't test Ghanima's omnipotence!

Re: Listen to the Lecture

[trigons_child]

Raven was trying to pay attention, but she was also daydreaming, just a little. She wasn't drawing hearts on her paper and writing "Mrs. Chuck Bass," at least, but she was radiating happiness. With a side of denial. Make that a double side.

Re: Listen to the Lecture

[weetuskenraider]

Tahiri had a bit of a funny look on her face during the lecture. The whole animal experience had kind of had its upside? Um.

Re: Listen to the Lecture

[walks-two-paths.livejournal.com]

Savannah was taking notes as she listened to Ghanima speak.

Re: Listen to the Lecture

[heartflames.livejournal.com]

Eleanor was busy taking notes. There was certainly a lot of information in this lecture, and all of it fascinating.

And personally, Eleanor hadn't really minded being a kitten.

Re: Listen to the Lecture

[momslilassassin]

Ben thought that his father was treading fairly close to inherent omnipotence, which was a pretty terrifying concept.

Re: Listen to the Lecture

[new-to-liirness.livejournal.com]

Liir listened, but he was pressing his pen rather hard on the paper, hard enough to leave indents on the next page.

Re: Listen to the Lecture

[anarchist-queen.livejournal.com]

Leda looked like she had maybe drunk too much coffee. What with the nervous fidgeting that almost looked involuntary. But she was paying attention as best she could.

Activity!

[atreideslioness]

As mentioned, pair up, and discuss one of the questions Ghanima posed:

- What do you think is most important for a divine being that's writing destiny?

- Which of the Omnis is most compatible with the idea of free will? Which is the most incompatible?

- Do you feel omnipresence is part of the other two, or is it something that can stand separately.

- Can you be omniscient if you are not omnipresent?

Re: Activity!

[not-jaded-yet.livejournal.com]

Jennifer looked around for a partner.

Re: Activity!

[heartflames.livejournal.com]

Eleanor was looking around for some to pair up with and contemplating which question to answer.

Re: Activity!

[puppy_fair]

Zack kind of bobbled back and forth for a minute, trying to make sense of the questions and looking for a partner at the same time.

Clearly, he was not omnicient. So many omni-words had him a bit confused.

Re: Activity!

[momslilassassin]

Ben was writing down his thoughts to the discussion questions as he waited for a partner.

Re: Activity!

[weetuskenraider]

Tahiri sat and chewed on her lower lip thoughtfully, trying to mull over her own answers. Despite the title of the book she just went through She didn't feel like she was any closer to any conclusive thoughts on the matter now than she'd been a few months ago. Days. Something. Gah. She was still pretty badly time-lagged today.

Re: Activity!

[new-to-liirness.livejournal.com]

Liir looked about as friendly as a rabid cat today, so he kept from looking for someone by starting to answer the questions in his notebook. He wouldn't mind a partner, but he was well aware the subject had him in a mood and he wouldn't subject others to it.

Talk to the TAs

[atreideslioness]

If they're there...

Re: Talk to the TAs

[weetuskenraider]

Hey, look, Tahiri was here this week. And not a cougar. And sporting a new haircut, but the here-and-not-a-cougar part was the important one.

Talk to Ghanima

[atreideslioness]

She's around, before and after class.

Re: Talk to Ghanima

[weetuskenraider]

A couple of weeks (or, you know, four months) ago, Tahiri would have been a little more abashed about this, but she walked up to Ghanima after class and tucked her hands behind her back. "I'm sorry about missing last week."

Still boggling that she'd only missed last week, but still sorry.

Re: Talk to Ghanima

[thatsamilkshake]

Francine came up to see her before class; the boys had done the same for her when she was gone, after all. "Lady Ghanima?"

Re: Talk to Ghanima

[momslilassassin]

"Master Atreides?" Ben began after waiting in line for her attention. "I was at home last week."

Re: Talk to Ghanima

[a-demosthenes.livejournal.com]

"Miss Atreides?" Busy lady today, it seemed, but Valentine wanted to at least establish explain a little why she wasn't in class last week despite super duper SP. "I don't really have much of an excuse, and I wouldn't bore you with it, anyway,"--besides, she had a feeling she'd understand anyway, all things considered--,"but I did want to apologize for missing class last Monday and if there's any make-up work you'd like from me for it, I'd be glad to do it."

OOC

[atreideslioness]

Mondays are fired. Trufax.