Destiny & Free Will, Week VI [Monday, Period 4]

[atreideslioness]

As students arrived today, they might notice Ghanima had actually written on the chalkboard for once:

Sarv-gyaata  |  Sarv-samarth  |  Sarv-vyapt 

"Good morning, students," she said clearly.  "Today we study the the 'omni' categories.  Omniscient, omnipotent, and omnipresent."


"Omniscience is the capacity to know everything infinitely, or at least everything that can be known about a person, including thoughts, feelings, life and the universe, and so on," she said, beginning to write on the board.  "In monotheism, this ability is typically attributed to God. This concept is included in the Qur'an, where God is called "Al-'aleem" on multiple occasions. This is the infinite form of the verb "alema" which means to know. In the Bible, God is referred to often as "The Great I Am," among other similar names, which also incorporates His omnipresence and omnipotence. In Hinduism, God is referred to as sarv-gyaata," she pointed at the words on the board, "which means omniscient, sarv-samarth, or omnipotent, and sarv-vyapt, omnipresent."

"There is a distinction between inherent omniscience, which is the ability to know anything that one chooses to know and can be known, and total omniscience, which is actually knowing everything that can be known."  Ghanima smiled and tapped her chalk against the board.  "It might sound like more semantics to you, but I promise, it's a very large difference." 

"Some modern theologians argue that God's omniscience is inherent rather than total, and that God chooses to limit his omniscience in order to preserve the freewill and dignity of his creatures.  Certain theologians of the 16th Century, comfortable with the definition of God as being omniscient in the total sense, to rebuke created beings' ability to choose freely, embraced the doctrine of predestination."

"Our second topic, omnipresence, is the ability to be present in every place at any, and/or every, time; unbounded or universal presence. It is related to the concept of ubiquity, the ability to be everywhere at a certain point in time.  Some argue that omnipresence is a derived characteristic: an omniscient and omnipotent deity knows every thing and can be and act every where, simultaneously. Others propound a deity as having the "Three O's", including omnipresence as a unique characteristic of the deity."

"Omnipotence is where it starts to get a bit trickier," she said thoughtfully.  "Belief that God can do absolutely anything can be thought to yield certain logical paradoxes. A simple example goes as follows: Can God create a rock so heavy that even he cannot lift it? If he can, then the rock is now unliftable, limiting God's power. But if he cannot, then he is still not omnipotent. This question cannot be answered using formal logic due to its self-referential nature. Two excellent examples of this are the liar paradox and Godel's incompleteness theorem. This problem led in the High Middle Ages to developing the concept of mathematical infinity, and laid the basis for infinitesimal calculus."

"A good example of this trinity might be the animal transformations that seem to plague the island at times," Ghanima said.  "Say, perhaps, I had a TA that turned into a bird, or a student into a rabbit or kitten." 

Not that it had ever happened.  Really.  Or that she had recorded this same lecture last year, with Reno as a tiny red chicken.

"One could argue that an omniscient god would, one, know of the student body's habit of thumbing their collective noses at destiny.  He, she, or it, would also know of every thought a person has ever had, or ever will have.  The omniscient god would know that being something cute and fluffy would be rather embarrassing for most students, who tend to think of themselves as fighters, and therefore rather fitting. Two, an omnipotent god could easily make someone a fluffy birdie, and finally, an omnipresent god would be able to enact it in the here and now." 

"So, I would like you to pair up and discuss.  What do you think is most important for a divine being that's writing destiny?  Which of the Omnis is most compatible with the idea of free will?  Which is the most incompatible?  Do you feel omnipresence is part of the other two, or is it something that can stand separately.  Can you be omniscient if you are not omnipresent?  Team up, and decide."

"Oh, and anyone who missed last week?  Please come see me at my desk after class."


[OOC:  OCD UP!]

Comments

Activity!

[atreideslioness]

As mentioned, pair up, and discuss one of the questions Ghanima posed:

- What do you think is most important for a divine being that's writing destiny?

- Which of the Omnis is most compatible with the idea of free will? Which is the most incompatible?

- Do you feel omnipresence is part of the other two, or is it something that can stand separately.

- Can you be omniscient if you are not omnipresent?

Re: Activity!

[not-jaded-yet.livejournal.com]

Jennifer looked around for a partner.

Re: Activity!

[walks-two-paths.livejournal.com]

Savannah gave a small smile to Jennifer. "Need a partner?"


[[OOC: SP due to work.]]

Re: Activity!

[not-jaded-yet.livejournal.com]

Jennifer nodded and returned the smile. "I'd love to work with you on this," she said. "Do you have a specific question you wanted to talk about?"

Re: Activity!

[heartflames.livejournal.com]

Eleanor was looking around for some to pair up with and contemplating which question to answer.

Re: Activity!

[anarchist-queen.livejournal.com]

There was someone that Leda would maybe have preferred to avoid. Given what had happened recently. So instead she sought her out. She was going for denial afterall.

"Hey. So uh, wanna partner up? Oh, and do you still wanna go for that night walk?" Leda seemed wired and tired all at once.

Re: Activity!

[heartflames.livejournal.com]

Eleanor was surprised to see Leda. She had taken Karla's advice and kept her distance, not wanting to cause any undue pain. Maybe the fact that she was here now meant she was starting to heal.

She smiled warmly. "Certainly. For both things. Please join me."

Re: Activity!

[anarchist-queen.livejournal.com]

Leda smiled, and sat down. Starting to Heal? Well, she was working on it. In a way. She didn't feel like she was healing.

"When do you want to do the hike? I'm good all this week. Oh, uh, which thing do you want to talk about, Scout?"

Re: Activity!

[heartflames.livejournal.com]

"How does Wednesday sound? And I was thinking either the one about the divine being writing destiny or the Omni and free will question. Which do you prefer?"

Re: Activity!

[puppy_fair]

Zack kind of bobbled back and forth for a minute, trying to make sense of the questions and looking for a partner at the same time.

Clearly, he was not omnicient. So many omni-words had him a bit confused.

Re: Activity!

[sorella-vecchia.livejournal.com]

Triela caught Zack's eye and grinned just a bit. "Still looking for a partner?" she asked as if his looking-around didn't suggest that pretty strongly.

Re: Activity!

[puppy_fair]

"Triela! I sure am!" Zack grinned and waved hello. Hello! "Do you have any preference as to which question we should answer?"

Re: Activity!

[sorella-vecchia.livejournal.com]

"No preference," she shook her head with a grin. "Though I guess this is a class about free will, so maybe that one? Unless you had one you wanted to do."

Re: Activity!

[puppy_fair]

"The free will one is good!" Zack was totally exercising his own free will by not actually choosing to make the decision himself. Woo! "I'm going to have to go with the one that's everywhere probably being the best at letting us have free will. I mean, some other guy being places isn't going to mean we have to do things, right?"

Re: Activity!

[momslilassassin]

Ben was writing down his thoughts to the discussion questions as he waited for a partner.

Re: Activity!

[nevertobequeen.livejournal.com]

"Sometimes, I find myself wondering if these questions have specific answers, and I simply haven't thought of them," Morgana said, smiling at Ben.

Re: Activity!

[momslilassassin]

"I think we could also answer things like 'pudding' and if we could weave a compelling enough reason, it would work, too," Ben babbled.

Because wow, cute girl.

Re: Activity!

[nevertobequeen.livejournal.com]

"If only we were omniscient and knew exactly what Lady Ghanima wants to hear."

Oh yes, she did think she was clever.

Re: Activity!

[momslilassassin]

Ben giggled laughed, then closed his eyes. "She wants to know about kittens," he said solemnly.

Re: Activity!

[weetuskenraider]

Tahiri sat and chewed on her lower lip thoughtfully, trying to mull over her own answers. Despite the title of the book she just went through She didn't feel like she was any closer to any conclusive thoughts on the matter now than she'd been a few months ago. Days. Something. Gah. She was still pretty badly time-lagged today.

Re: Activity!

[thatsamilkshake]

"Is it missing the point of the assignment if I say that I'm not sure I care if God sees everything, knows everything, or goes everyplace, as long as he loves everybody?" Francine asked, at least vaguely in Tahiri's direction.

The angel-if-he-was guy's sermon last week hadn't exactly left her thoughts on the matter less wobbly.

Re: Activity!

[weetuskenraider]

Tahiri smiled slightly. "I guess that means you don't think any of those qualities is the most important, then. And I'm not sure I do either, but I don't really believe in a god." Or at least, part of her didn't. The other part wasn't entirely clear on the concepts, but had an instinctive reverence for several. "And it never really occurred to me that it was even a god's job to love everyone."

Re: Activity!

[thatsamilkshake]

"That's what I was taught," Francine said slowly. "That God loves everybody and everything, and he's here to take care of us." Except for, you know, the things he hated that you weren't supposed to do, or be.

Re: Activity!

[weetuskenraider]

"Different galaxy," Tahiri reminded her gently. "It sounds like a good idea, a god who loves everyone. Do you really believe that?"

Re: Activity!

[new-to-liirness.livejournal.com]

Liir looked about as friendly as a rabid cat today, so he kept from looking for someone by starting to answer the questions in his notebook. He wouldn't mind a partner, but he was well aware the subject had him in a mood and he wouldn't subject others to it.