screwyoumarvel: (Steve!)
screwyoumarvel ([personal profile] screwyoumarvel) wrote in [community profile] fandomhigh2007-07-18 12:36 am
Entry tags:

Patriotism Yay!: Period 2, Week 2

Once again, Steve was waiting for his students in a clearing. "Last week, I asked you what your personal definition of patriotism was, and your answers were very interesting, and for the most part along the same lines, which just goes to show that patriotism is a universal value. And one of you made a comment that I thought was worth following up on.

"Miss Carnahan raised an interesting point about how sometimes your loyalties can be split between two nations. That's perfectly okay, although you may find yourself in a bit of a personal crisis if those two nations have a difference of opinion. And it's perfectly possible for your loyalties to be split in a way other than between nations: Robert E. Lee was asked to take command of the Union Army at the outbreak of the American Civil War. For those of you not versed on American history, General Lee was from Virginia, which was on the the other side of the conflict, and he chose to lead the Confederate army instead. So, here are my questions for today. Under what circumstances can you see loyalties being split, and in a case where you're forced to choose, what do you think would be the right thing for a patriot to do?"

Re: Answer the Questions

[identity profile] bookyeve.livejournal.com 2007-07-18 09:38 pm (UTC)(link)
"But what if your personal patriotic beliefs are that they're both right?" Evie asked, biting her lip. "Or at least, not both wrong. England and Egypt have been at odds for some time now, in my era. And, well, there's things I support in each of them." She frowned. "Whichever one I would choose to support, I'd be a traitor to one of them."

Re: Answer the Questions

[identity profile] stocksgrrl.livejournal.com 2007-07-18 09:42 pm (UTC)(link)
"So you'd just be neutral?" Turtle asked. "How does that help anything? Both aren't right, and both aren't wrong, sure, but one of 'em's got to be more right...By not choosing to support either, you're being a traitor to both."

Re: Answer the Questions

[identity profile] bookyeve.livejournal.com 2007-07-18 09:50 pm (UTC)(link)
Evie gave Turtle a dismayed glance. "No! I don't want to be! But, but-- I would support Egypt in its independence, but I far prefer the laws of England. But if I supported Egypt, some people in England might utterly dismiss me and my opinions out of hand, and my entire academic and professional future would go up in smoke!" She put her head down on her desk. Then pounded it a little. "Not a traitor."

Re: Answer the Questions

[identity profile] stocksgrrl.livejournal.com 2007-07-18 10:02 pm (UTC)(link)
"So, instead, you're just sitting on your butt because it's safe?" Turtle asked. She frowned a little at Evie, part sympathetic, part sad. "What good does that do? That's the opposite of patriotic, if you ask me. You think half the civil rights movements would have happened if people were worried about their academic and professional futures? No way, Jose. I mean, heck, the whole fact idea of women voting! Do you think all the suffragettes were all, 'Oh, no! We don't want to be a traitor to our nation, better sit on our butts today and knit some more, instead of going out and rallying, la-di-dahhhh.'"

Re: Answer the Questions

[identity profile] bookyeve.livejournal.com 2007-07-18 10:18 pm (UTC)(link)
"See here!" Evie started flailing a bit, beginning to be outraged, even though she was the one who'd brought it up. "I, I would very much like the vote! I feel confident that England will give women the vote, eventually! They already have it in Australia and Wales! But I'm not so sure about Egypt! And, and, I'd have to wear a veil in Egypt. Or risk being stoned in some places, or accosted by strange men, if they thought I was Egyptian. But England's still wrong about Egypt being a protectorate, but if I mention it, and then anyone knows that my mother is Egyptian, they don't even want to hear about it!" She took a breath. "I'm a disenfranchised minority in *both* countries, and I don't know which fights to pick! There!"

Re: Answer the Questions

[identity profile] stocksgrrl.livejournal.com 2007-07-18 10:57 pm (UTC)(link)
"But because you're a disenfranchised minority, that's all the more reason to pick!" Turtle, who felt like she wasn't that shielded from that sort of thing just from being upper middle crust, thank you very much. She knew that her family had been ostracized from her mother's side because of who her father was, even if they didn't talk about that. "Otherwise, you, and other people like you, will always be disenfranchised. You have to fight to get what you believe in; no one got anywhere unless they worked hard for it."

Re: Answer the Questions

[identity profile] bookyeve.livejournal.com 2007-07-18 11:05 pm (UTC)(link)
Evie blinked her eyes, hard, and bit her lip. "I-I have to think about this. Quite a bit. I don't believe in 'my country, right or wrong'. But I don't..." Was it more practical, if less honest, to support these things as an Englishwoman? Or as someone of mixed race? Jonathan never admitted to being Egyptian if he could help it. Far, far too difficult for him. And yet that hurt her mother. "I don't know how. Do you understand? In an ideal world I would have the vote, and Egypt would be independent and also allow women to vote, and no one would care about my background in either place. But they do."

Re: Answer the Questions

[identity profile] stocksgrrl.livejournal.com 2007-07-18 11:11 pm (UTC)(link)
"Right," Turtle nodded. "And that's what it'll stay with an attitude like that. An ideal."

Re: Answer the Questions

[identity profile] bookyeve.livejournal.com 2007-07-18 11:16 pm (UTC)(link)
Evie glared at Turtle, and shook her finger, spluttering, trying to find words, then gave up, folding her arms and fuming. "Ooooo."