fandomhigh | Patriotism Yay!: Period 2, Week 2

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Patriotism Yay!: Period 2, Week 2

Once again, Steve was waiting for his students in a clearing. "Last week, I asked you what your personal definition of patriotism was, and your answers were very interesting, and for the most part along the same lines, which just goes to show that patriotism is a universal value. And one of you made a comment that I thought was worth following up on.

"Miss Carnahan raised an interesting point about how sometimes your loyalties can be split between two nations. That's perfectly okay, although you may find yourself in a bit of a personal crisis if those two nations have a difference of opinion. And it's perfectly possible for your loyalties to be split in a way other than between nations: Robert E. Lee was asked to take command of the Union Army at the outbreak of the American Civil War. For those of you not versed on American history, General Lee was from Virginia, which was on the the other side of the conflict, and he chose to lead the Confederate army instead. So, here are my questions for today. Under what circumstances can you see loyalties being split, and in a case where you're forced to choose, what do you think would be the right thing for a patriot to do?"

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Collapsey sign-ins are patriotic

Seely Booth

Evie Carnahan

T.R. Wexler

Sabriel

Peter Parker

Chat, pass notes, nap, etc.

And discuss.

Sabriel had to think for a long time about this. If there was a war between the Old Kingdom and Ancelstierre, what would she choose? How could she choose?

"I'm not sure if there is a right answer here. Maybe in the end you just have to do what you think is right?"

"You're right, there isn't a right answer. That's why I didn't ask what the right answer is. I want to know what you think," Steve told her.

"There are twoways this can go, I think," Turtle said, tilting her head and tapping her chin. And, yes, she was wearing a t-shirt with the T & C logo on it. "One, you put in with whichever is more your home....So if you live more here than say England although you have dual citizenship, it might be more patriotic to be all, 'yay America!' Another would be to consider what's going on...and whichever is projecting the foundation of your own personal patriotic beliefs."

"But what if your personal patriotic beliefs are that they're both right?" Evie asked, biting her lip. "Or at least, not both wrong. England and Egypt have been at odds for some time now, in my era. And, well, there's things I support in each of them." She frowned. "Whichever one I would choose to support, I'd be a traitor to one of them."

"So you'd just be neutral?" Turtle asked. "How does that help anything? Both aren't right, and both aren't wrong, sure, but one of 'em's got to be more right...By not choosing to support either, you're being a traitor to both."

Evie gave Turtle a dismayed glance. "No! I don't want to be! But, but-- I would support Egypt in its independence, but I far prefer the laws of England. But if I supported Egypt, some people in England might utterly dismiss me and my opinions out of hand, and my entire academic and professional future would go up in smoke!" She put her head down on her desk. Then pounded it a little. "Not a traitor."

"So, instead, you're just sitting on your butt because it's safe?" Turtle asked. She frowned a little at Evie, part sympathetic, part sad. "What good does that do? That's the opposite of patriotic, if you ask me. You think half the civil rights movements would have happened if people were worried about their academic and professional futures? No way, Jose. I mean, heck, the whole fact idea of women voting! Do you think all the suffragettes were all, 'Oh, no! We don't want to be a traitor to our nation, better sit on our butts today and knit some more, instead of going out and rallying, la-di-dahhhh.'"

"See here!" Evie started flailing a bit, beginning to be outraged, even though she was the one who'd brought it up. "I, I would very much like the vote! I feel confident that England will give women the vote, eventually! They already have it in Australia and Wales! But I'm not so sure about Egypt! And, and, I'd have to wear a veil in Egypt. Or risk being stoned in some places, or accosted by strange men, if they thought I was Egyptian. But England's still wrong about Egypt being a protectorate, but if I mention it, and then anyone knows that my mother is Egyptian, they don't even want to hear about it!" She took a breath. "I'm a disenfranchised minority in *both* countries, and I don't know which fights to pick! There!"

"But because you're a disenfranchised minority, that's all the more reason to pick!" Turtle, who felt like she wasn't that shielded from that sort of thing just from being upper middle crust, thank you very much. She knew that her family had been ostracized from her mother's side because of who her father was, even if they didn't talk about that. "Otherwise, you, and other people like you, will always be disenfranchised. You have to fight to get what you believe in; no one got anywhere unless they worked hard for it."

Evie blinked her eyes, hard, and bit her lip. "I-I have to think about this. Quite a bit. I don't believe in 'my country, right or wrong'. But I don't..." Was it more practical, if less honest, to support these things as an Englishwoman? Or as someone of mixed race? Jonathan never admitted to being Egyptian if he could help it. Far, far too difficult for him. And yet that hurt her mother. "I don't know how. Do you understand? In an ideal world I would have the vote, and Egypt would be independent and also allow women to vote, and no one would care about my background in either place. But they do."

"Right," Turtle nodded. "And that's what it'll stay with an attitude like that. An ideal."

Evie glared at Turtle, and shook her finger, spluttering, trying to find words, then gave up, folding her arms and fuming. "Ooooo."

"Detention, Miss Wexler," Steve told her. "And supporting one side, such as America over England, blindly regardless of which you think is right is jingoism, not patriotism. So your second thought is probably more on the right track."

"What? Why do I have detention?" Turtle frowned deeply at that. "You asked a question, and I answered, even if it wasn't exactly right. And if you're a patriotic person, won't what you think is right be regarded as patriotic? I figured we're to assume that we're talking about people with patriotic mindsets, considering the class and all."

"If you think back to our discussion last week, and then consider your wardrobe choices this week, you may be able to figure out why you have detention. You are, however, welcome to appeal through the proper channels.

"And no, what you think is right may not always be regarded as patriotic." Bitterness was creeping into Steve's voice. "It may even, in extreme circumstances, be regarded as traitorous. Even if you consider yourself a patriot and want what is best for your nation."

"My wardro..." Turtle blinked, then looked down, holding out her shirt. "Oh. Right." And she looked back up to Steve with her eyes pouting a little. "Laundry day. It's all I had clean..."

"And who decides what's patriotic, anyway, then? Everyone's going to have a different opinion...And I love America, but I'm not naive to the point of knowing that all the textbook answers aren't going to be the right ones in reality..."

Steve decided to do her the favor of believing her. "Fine. No detention. Everyone has to decide what's patriotic for him or herself. Or itself. That's why it gets messy."

"But...if everyone's deciding for him or herself or itself what's patriotic, how is it anyone's right to say otherwise?"

And Turtle started to wonder if she was just being difficult or if it really was a matter of not understanding. She wanted to understand; she felt like she knew what patriotism was, but if she didn't....well, she wanted to figure it out, because Sandy would want her to be patriotic. But, then again, was he patriotic? She'd grown up thinking so, using Sam Westing as a measure, and so maybe she was just being difficult to avoid having to rework her system of belief...

Her mouth twisted into a thoughtful pout.

"It's everyone's right to say otherwise," Steve said. "It is the right of every last person to act, think, and speak according to their own principles." Steve actually had quite a long speech he could make here, but that's another class. "And if they think someone else is wrong, it's their right to say so. 'I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it,' to quote Voltaire."

"I thought that was Shakespeare." Because all quotes came from either Shakespeare or the Bible. Turtle shook her head. That didn't matter. "So how would this whole freedom of speech thing tie into being patriotic with sides? Couldn't you just...okay, I think I see why my first one was more in line, I think..."

Evie sighed. "Egypt should be independent of England, yet I am fundamentally opposed to some of Egypt's practices, should they gain their independence. I couldn't stay in that culture as an Egyptian woman, because there's a great deal I'd have to give up. Or fight for. But I can't unilaterally support England and the Empire on which The Sun Never Sets, because there are quite a few very blind people who aren't good governors or administrators over cultures they don't really understand." She rubbed her temples. "It rather gives me a headache."

"It's never easy," Steve said sympathetically. "Can you think of ways you can reach a solution? Maybe you could work for Egyptian independence from within the context of England."

Evie blinked, thinking, and said cautiously, "I suppose... Yes, I suppose there must be some other people in England who support Egypt's independence." She looked hesitant. "And merely supporting a proposition wouldn't mark me as not a patriot, since we do have freedom of speech, and a House of Commons to represent us."

"There you go," Steve said. "You also might consider ways to influence change within Egypt, which I will grant you might be difficult during your time period."

"Extraordinarily," Evie said, looking glum. "Between my gender and my background, there's not much voice in public affairs allowed. I've no wish to become a martyr, which always impresses people, but strikes me as rather, um. Extreme."

"No, the problem with being a martyr," Steve said in a weary voice, "is that you don't exactly get much say. Because you're dead."

Evie gave Steve a bewildered look, and then turned pink at her lack of logic. "Well, yes. Valid point. Very much so."

After class, Steve waited around for a few minutes for any students who wanted a word with him.

To prevent the world ending, 'cause that doesn't get to happen until Saturday.

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Patriotism Yay!: Period 2, Week 2

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