fandomhigh | Ethics, Tuesday

There was no particular set-up this week; just your usual view of two grown men in robes the likes of which certain types of hippie would fight for. "A classic topic within the realm of ethics is the notion of the ends justifying the means," Obi-Wan said. "There are schools of thought that consider the means true as long as the end is just-- intention being more important than the actual consequence."

Anakin, who'd spent a lot of time with Atton recently, pursed his lips at that. "And then there are those who think that sounds like 'just think happy thoughts at the problem; instead of, you know, fix it."

Hard to believe this guy fell to the Dark Side, huh? Mmm, impulsiveness.

Was that a sigh? ... Yes, that was a sigh. Anakin.

"Or, at the other extreme, it might end in extreme and harmful actions taken for some hypothetical future gain," Obi-Wan said. "There is a middle road, of course: one can commit to some less than savory options for a common goal..."

"...and then deny ever having done so to maintain the moral high ground," Anakin finished, nodding.

...Obi-Wan turned to him and shot him a look. "No."

"So explain it to the class, Master 'I Faked My Own Death'," Anakin retorted.

"Are you still sour about that?" Anakin, really. Your ability to hold grudges... "Yes, I faked my own death. So I could disguise myself as a criminal and stop a Separatist plot that, we felt at the time, could cause immeasurable harm." He took a deep breath. "Anakin here is still upset because I didn't tell him, which is hardly the level of consequence I was attempting to describe."

Anakin rolled his eyes. "Every consequence doesn't have to have galactic ramifications," he said. "Hurting people's feelings is still a consequence you need to take into account." Another sour look Obi-Wan's direction. "Even if you didn't mean to."

"Your reaction is what sold my apparent death to the galaxy in the first place," Obi-Wan said. He shook his head before he got mired in this entirely. "...But, yes, let's discuss. Does intent ever excuse one's actions? Is there an end that justifies any means? If the answer to the first question is 'yes', and to the second is 'no', then how far do you believe someone may go and still remain in the bounds of the acceptable?"

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"Always, and in every situation?" Obi-Wan asked. "Or are there situations in which you could see that being waived?"

Alana made a face. "You can always come up with some extreme situation where a bad thing is okay," she said. "Like, you probably shouldn't kick a puppy, but you might have to if one was about to attack a baby. I don't see the point of breaking it down to every single hypothetical when like 95 percent of the time they won't come up."

"It is not about 'every single hypothetical'," Obi-Wan said. "Rather, the question is where your limits are. If those limits lay beyond situations that won't come up '95 percent of the time' at the present time... well, it depends on what turn your life takes, doesn't it?"

"Right, and I don't know all that much more about that than you do," Alana said, stretching her legs out thoughtfully. "Look, give me a situation and I'll tell you what I'd do. Or what I'd want to do, anyhow. But I can't set limits without knowing what the possibilities even are."

"Consider the situation we just spoke of," Obi-Wan said. "In that scenario, there was a great likelihood that if someone did not infiltrate this criminal situation, the Chancellor of the Republic would have been killed. And few people would have believed I was dead if Anakin was not noticeably distraught. Would you have done the same?"

His mouth curved. "Or a situation that's rather less life-and-death, such as... say, a friend tells you information in confidence that they do not wish you to share, but passing this information on to a third party could easily improve that person's own life measurably, get them out of the poverty they were living in, without harming anything but potentially your friend's faith in you. Would you do it?"

"On the first one, no," Alana said, grateful for the specific questions. She didn't do well with hypothetical. "Even if you absolutely had to pretend to be dead and Anakin can't act, it seems to me like you could have found a way to let him in on the secret and find some way to keep him out of sight so he wouldn't spoil the plan. Send him to a different planet. Have him say he was too upset to leave his room. Whatever."

"On the second one" -- she shrugged. "Probably. Making somebody not poor anymore is good enough that I'd be okay having a friend mad at me over it."

"Now suppose the third person is an out-of-work journalist, and the information you have passed along reflects somewhat badly on your friend's place of work," Obi-Wan said. "The leak won't get traced back to your friend, and it'll still have the effect of getting this third person a job-- but now she's in for a few very unpleasant weeks at work. Would you still do it?"

"Sure," Alana said. "If it's something like the CEO is a drunk asshole, and he gets fired because of the story, it'll come back and make work better for my friend in the end anyhow."

Ethics, Tuesday

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