Ethics [Tuesday, October 2, 2012, 1st period]

[sith_happened]

"Morning, class," Anakin said leaning against his desk at the front . "I hope your weekends were as trauma-free as can be expected with relatives visiting. Today we learn about Immanuel Kant," he began, gesturing to the Korra if she's there to hand out information on the man. "He was an influential German philosopher on this planet several hundred years ago who thought every action should have pure intention behind it; otherwise it was meaningless. He did not necessarily believe that the final result was the most important aspect of an action, but that how the person felt while carrying out the action was the time at which value was set to the result."

In his mind, Anakin could hear Obi-Wan nattering on about how many of the truths people cling to depending upon their point of view. He shook his head to clear it and continued. "In other words, it's not the results that make something moral but why you made that decision, and Kant believed that only decisions made purely out of duty have moral worth. For instance, Kant spoke of a shopkeeper who passed up the chance to shortchange a customer only because his business might suffer if other customers found out.  According to Kant, the shopkeeper’s action had no moral worth because he did the right thing for the wrong reason."

He paced the room. "What do you think of Kant's conclusion? Is he being too hard on that shopkeeper? What of people who are in the habit of being good without thinking? Is that being moral, or just being conditioned to interact correctly with society?"

Comments

Sign in [10/2]

[sith_happened]

The visitors have gone away!

Re: Sign in [10/2]

[failsatspirit]

Korra

Re: Sign in [10/2]

[suitably_heroic]

Atton Rand

Re: Sign in [10/2]

[myownface]

Sparkle

Listen to the lecture [10/2]

[sith_happened]

Or mope about the weekend, or look forward to break next week.

Re: Listen to the lecture [10/2]

[failsatspirit]

Korra was not moping, sure she'd been sad to see Tenzin and Lin go, but compared to how she'd been feeling before this weekend, it wasn't so bad.

Answer the discussion questions [10/2]

[sith_happened]

"Is Kant being too hard on the shopkeeper?" and "What about people who are in the habit of being good without thinking: is that being moral, or just being conditioned to interact correctly with society?"

Pick one and answer it!

Re: Answer the discussion questions [10/2]

[suitably_heroic]

"Kant's not being too hard on the shopkeeper," Atton said. "You keep doing the right thing for the wrong reasons, eventually you're going to do the wrong thing anyway."

Beat.

"Or really piss somebody off."

Re: Answer the discussion questions [10/2]

[sith_happened]

"Or both," Anakin replied. "If the shopkeeper gets beaten, would it encourage him to reform, do you think, or just harden him in his ways?"

Re: Answer the discussion questions [10/2]

[suitably_heroic]

"In my experience?" Atton asked, eyeballing Anakin. "It'd just harden the guy. Maybe add some self-pity with a dash of self-righteousness."

Re: Answer the discussion questions [10/2]

[myownface]

"Honestly, who the hell is it who gets to pick what the 'right' and 'wrong' reasons are, anyhow? The shopkeeper is covering his own ass, just like everyone does. We're human. We're animal. We're nice to people because we want people to like us, aren't we? So where's the difference?"

Sparkle was being extra jaded today. Don't mind him.

He so would have pocketed that change.

Re: Answer the discussion questions [10/2]

[sith_happened]

"Well, if we don't care about people liking us, or blending in with society, does that cut us free from society's expectations?" Anakin asked. "If we don't mind getting kicked, can we go around kicking people who we think deserve it?"

If so, Anakin wanted that declared an island-wide holiday.

[pursuedthestars]

"At least the shopkeeper returned the money?" Jim suggested, feeling vaguely hungover but hiding it well. "He could have just kept it for himself which would have been wrong the reason all around. Does he get credit for the effort he made, at least?"

Didn't seem like it but that's where Jim's mind was today.

[sith_happened]

"Do you think he should get credit for not ripping people off?" Anakin asked.

Re: Answer the discussion questions [10/2]

[nomelancholy.livejournal.com]

"I think he's being a bit hard on the man," Ulrik said thoughtfully. "I mean, doing the right thing even when you don't want to shows a certain understanding of society's rules. That things go much smoother if we adhere to that standard of behaviour."

Re: Answer the discussion questions [10/2]

[sith_happened]

"If he does it to adhere to standards of behavior, do you think it will grow into a habit he wishes to continue?"

Re: Answer the discussion questions [10/2]

[monkeymonkeydie.livejournal.com]

"Kan't isn't being hard enough on the shopkeeper," Bucky answered. "If he hasn't figured out how to shortchange customers without anyone finding out, he's clearly not trying hard enough."

Re: Answer the discussion questions [10/2]

[sith_happened]

Anakin hid a smile behind his hand. "Really."

Follow-up Hypothetical [10/2]

[sith_happened]

"Suppose that Qui-Gon is always up to mischief, but Obi-Wan is always there to stop it. As a result, Qui-Gon tends to do the right thing, but he always wants to do the wrong thing. Is Qui-Gon moral, according to Kant? What do you think?"

Or do you just want to kick Obi-Wan, like Anakin, er, "Qui-Gon" did?

Re: Follow-up Hypothetical [10/2]

[monkeymonkeydie.livejournal.com]

"...Are those names???" Bucky asked incredulously. "Of, like, actual people who were named actual named by their actual naming parents?" He face-pawed and sighed. "Look, if you're not going to put any actual effort into these questions, I'm not going to answer them."

This one was a real winner, here.

Talk to Anakin or Korra!

[sith_happened]

They love chatting!

Re: Talk to Anakin or Korra!

[failsatspirit]

Korra was there, and occasionally looking in Anakin's direction in a vaguely guilty manner.

Re: Talk to Anakin or Korra!

[sith_happened]

Anakin gave her a slightly reassuring smile in reply.

OOC

[sith_happened]

Ugh, must clean house. Hate cleaning house.

Re: OOC

[craftyladyparts.livejournal.com]

I think that Immanuel Kant was a real pissant who was very rarely stable.