Practical Squiring, Thursday

[givehimahand.livejournal.com]

"A knight is more than just a soldier when all is said and done. Anyone can have a weapon given to them and told to kill to defend their lord, but a knight is supposed to be better than that."

Emphasis on the 'supposed to be' there. Today they met in a regular classroom, devoid of barrels, or armor, or swords. Jaime granted the students a slightly brittle smile as he kept on. "To become a knight, you are made to swear vows before your gods--who or whatever they may be--vows that demand you protect the defenseless, defend the weak, obey your king and liege lord... All sorts of vows."

Perhaps it was Brienne's fault that he was even bringing this up for class. Time spent with that beast of a woman had forced him to remember when he'd actually believed in honor and glory.

"But what do you do when they conflict?" Jaime asked. "You will be an oath breaker regardless of your choice. So where does your honor lay? To defend the weak or to obey your master?"

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[givehimahand.livejournal.com]

Oathly. That's a word now.

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[nottrivial]

Alec Lightwood

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[nothornlessrose.livejournal.com]

Cassidy

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[nomelancholy.livejournal.com]

Ulrik of Denmark

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[walkswithcoyote]

Mercy Thompson

Listen to the Lecture

[givehimahand.livejournal.com]

La.

Discuss

[givehimahand.livejournal.com]

Where does your honor lay?

Re: Discuss

[nottrivial]

"I'd like to think that the expectations for obedience are all in the name of achieving the actual mission," Alec said. "If they came into conflict, my choice would be to obey their intention, and stick to the mission of offering protection and defense to those who need it."

Re: Discuss

[givehimahand.livejournal.com]

"You swear to obey and protect your king. There is very little leeway in that," Jaime replied.

Re: Discuss

[nottrivial]

"But only because it's expected that the king -- so to speak -- will be honorable," Alec countered. "Which is my primary concern."

Re: Discuss

[nothornlessrose.livejournal.com]

Oh Hell's fire. Cassidy hated questions like this.

"My honor is always going to be with protecting the people that I have made a vow to take care of."

The person that tried to be a master to a Queen in Kaeleer would have a whole different kind of problem on their hands.

Re: Discuss

[givehimahand.livejournal.com]

"And what of loyalty to others?"

Re: Discuss

[nothornlessrose.livejournal.com]

Cassidy carefully did not look at Shira. She so knew better. Instead, she kept her eyes on Jaime.

"My duty will usually have to come first between any other ties I have," she said quietly. "No matter how much I want to do one thing, if it were to come at the expense of the people I'm charged to protect and defend, then I cannot do it. Even my own desires must come second to my duty to my people."

Which got a little prickly if you asked the current members of her court since they thought she needed to pay more attention to her own safety and care sometimes.

Shira.

Re: Discuss

[nomelancholy.livejournal.com]

"To defend those in need of defending," Ulrik said, without even needing to think about it. Yes, that was indeed the voice of experience there.

Re: Discuss

[givehimahand.livejournal.com]

"Not even a second thought for loyalty?"

Not that Jaime disagreed, but...

Re: Discuss

[nomelancholy.livejournal.com]

"My loyalty is with all the people of my country, not just the one with a crown upon his head," Ulrik shrugged. "The politics of my world are undergoing a rather dramatic shift at the moment, and there are those who understand this and are learning to adapt, and those who cling to the notion that they can do as they please because they are in charge. I consider myself to be one of the former."

Re: Discuss

[twintuitionist.livejournal.com]

"I think my honor has to be with the weak," Juliet decided. "I mean, the king's probably awesome or else he wouldn't be king, but ... part of great power is great responsibility, isn't it?"

So Jeremy had maybe made her watch that movie. Hush.

"Anyhow, so I'm responsible mainly to the little people, so they don't get hurt."

Re: Discuss

[givehimahand.livejournal.com]

"Men do not become kings because they are nice. They become them because they are capable of conquering nations." A beat. "And those descended from them must continue to hold it. A storybook king wouldn't survive the first uprising against him."

Kids here had odd notions of royalty. Small folk notions.

Re: Discuss

[twintuitionist.livejournal.com]

"Um, okay," Juliet said quizzically. "So ... does that mean I should do whatever he says, even if it's wrong?"

Re: Discuss

[snarkyhealer.livejournal.com]

"My honor lays with my Queen and my people," Shira said. "It's a little more complicated than that where I'm from, admittedly. I'm supposed to serve my Queen, yes. However, I cannot -- will not -- follow a Queen who does not have the best interests of my people at heart. I understand that not every single person's interests will be served all of the time, yes, but if my Queen does not strive to be the best for us, to do the best for us, then she is a Queen I cannot follow."

Re: Discuss

[givehimahand.livejournal.com]

"What will you do if the queen you follow started out as someone you admire, but over time succumbs to madness that leaves her lashing out at all enemies. Real or imagined."

Re: Discuss

[snarkyhealer.livejournal.com]

Mother Night, that was a painful question. And yet... it had a pretty easy answer. On the surface, anyway. She was sure they'd dig underneath it soon enough.

"I know what my Queen would want me to do in that case," Shira replied. "She would want me to worry about our people first and her second. But I think doing everything I possibly could to help my Queen's madness would count as serving my people -- we need this Queen the way she is now -- healthy and whole. If I gave up on her without trying everything in my power, then I'd be rather a piss-poor Healer."

Re: Discuss

[harpy-daughter.livejournal.com]

"First I would have to bow to a Queen, and that will be a piss-cold day in Hell," Surreal said cheerfully. "My honor is in my word, and there is no Queen walking that I would spit on if she was on fire, let alone pledge my word."

Sorry, Cassie, you and Bluebell aren't full Queens yet. And Surreal would probably toss dirt on you instead - it was faster to put out fires.

Talk to Jaime

[givehimahand.livejournal.com]

Talk to the hand.

OOC

[givehimahand.livejournal.com]

*flops*