Final Ethics Class, Friday 8-10am

[brambless.livejournal.com]

"Over the course of this term, we've looked a lot at your personal moral stance on things. Today we're going to be looking more generally - on how morals are taught to children, often insidiously.

"A good medium for this is fairy tales. Every culture has them - stories that are told to children, bearing little moral gems to shape and guide. The first thing I want you to do is a select a fairy tale. Don't worry if it's not one I'll know, just pick one you're familiar with."

Comments

[brambless.livejournal.com]

"Okay. Got your fairy tale? Good. Now, pick it apart. What are the ethical concerns and considerations. What messages are actually being taught to children?

"To give you an example of what I mean - Goldilocks breaks into someone's house. She steals their food and destroys their belongings. And yet, she's the heroine of the story, the one that children are supposed to identify with. There are two possible messages that could be told here. One is that a hungry person in need of succour can take refuge anywhere, and that the normal laws of society are waived in such an instance. The other is that courteous behaviour is not required to those who are less than human.

"So what about yours? What moral messages does your fairy tale carry? Do you believe they're appropriate for the children of this society?"

[demonbelthazor]

Bel raised his hand. "We don't have fairy tales where I come from," he said.

[brambless.livejournal.com]

"Wow," Tara replies, not thinking about the word before it pops out her mouth. "Um, any story told to children will do...?"

[demonbelthazor]

"They really don't tell stories to children," Bel said uncomfortably. "Except maybe something like 'There was once a young demon who coveted something that the Source had claimed as his own. He wanted one the Source had chosen as a mate, and was fool enough to think that he could safely arrange secret meetings with her. But the Source of course discovered the betrayal. He killed neither outright; he tortured them both for days so that all could see what would happen to those who betrayed him. Their suffering was legendary, and they thanked the Source when he finally allowed them to die.' Does that work?" He glanced over to Phoebe, then turned his face so she wouldn't see the conflict of emotions in his eyes.

[sensethevisions]

Phoebe looks at Tara, sadness in her eyes. "The Little Mermaid."

[brambless.livejournal.com]

"Oooh," Tara replies. "The real one? Or the Disnified version? Because the messages change a lot."

[sensethevisions]

"The real one."

[forlornslayer.livejournal.com]

Buffy has been thinking about this since the class on Monday. In the Monday class, she had been silent and listened to everyone else make their analysis of their fairy tales and their ethics.

She finally looks up at Tara and says, "Beauty and the Beast."

[brambless.livejournal.com]

"Alright," Tara replies omg so very late because I got no comment notification for this one.

"What are the ethical issues with Beauty and the Beast? What lessons does it teach?"

[forlornslayer.livejournal.com]

"First of all, it states that no matter how small something you do is, there will always be Cause and Effect."

[wraithbaitjohn.livejournal.com]

So, okay... Snow White.

There is one good point in the whole story - Never take candy poisoned apples from strangers. I mean, in today's society. DUH!

I guess there's actually two good points - Vanity will kick you in the ass. If they Wicked Queen hadn't kept asking the mirror day after day to stroke her ego, she may never had learned that there was a new Miss Enchanted Forest crowned that day.

And there's the whole don't stereotype little people thing. That's just rude.

Is it appropriate for small children today? Sure. I mean, don't get all hung up on the death and dying and sex thing, but the Disneyized sanitized versions are okay.

At least the evil person in this story isn't a step mother. I mean, in today's society children's stories need to be more sensitive to blended and non-traditional families.

[valentine-tart.livejournal.com]

"I was always kinda fond of that one with the elves and the shoemaker." Beka snorted, "Man never knew what a good thing he had. And those elves... They could have made so much money for themselves."

She paused, "I think the moral was something about how if you're really depressed, magical beings will lift up your spirits. I suppose that'd be kind of insidious for kids. Seeing as how magic is a lie. Mostly."

[brambless.livejournal.com]

Tara furrows her brows a little. "...You think that's the moral of the story? Um, would you like to broaden that out a little? Maybe look at the ethics from the elves' perspective?"

[valentine-tart.livejournal.com]

Pulling more from out of her foggy memory, Beka shrugs. "They saw a guy needing help, they gave him that help. Heck, he did half the work, he got all of the money. Of course, then he and his wife had to go and make clothes for them. So, maybe they did learn that they didn't have to work for him forever."

[mparkerceo.livejournal.com]

"Red Riding Hood," Parker says, eyes narrowing. "Don't talk to strangers; follow the rules; don't go off the path. And no matter how nice the wolf seems, he's probably a monster." She frowns, thinking. "Some of them are appopriate. At least for very small children. But by the time you grow up, you have to use your own judgment, and not follow the rules blindly. And maybe strangers are more trustworthy than people who send you out into the woods."

[brambless.livejournal.com]

"That's a nice philosophy," Tara replies, a little surprised to hear it coming from Parker of all people, who has always seemed so cynical.

"If you were going to rewrite it, is there anything you would change?"

[mparkerceo.livejournal.com]

"Let Red Riding Hood kill the wolf, instead of some passing woodsman. And save Grandma from being eaten, even if she does get rescued. Well, I guess that would ruin the whole point of the story. But make Red the hero, damnit." Parker shakes her head. "What kind of moral is that? That you have to depend on the kindness of strangers?"

[marsheadtilt.livejournal.com]

"Hansel and Gretl," Veronica says. "It teaches children that they need to listen to their parents or something bad could happen. It also teaches them not to be greedy. I think it's very appropriate, but I don't understand why the evil women in all the fairy tales are depicted as witches." She smiles at Tara. "After all, the witches I know are all very nice." She glances around the room to grin at Piper and Phoebe as well.

[brambless.livejournal.com]

Tara frowns in confusion. "Um, didn't Hansel and Gretl's parents take them out into the forest and leave them there to starve?"

She's a bit worried that the alternate universe thing that happens in Fandom means that Veronica's talking about an entirely different fairy tale.

[marsheadtilt.livejournal.com]

Veronica looks confused. "I thought the kids wandered off despite being told not to," she says. "But it's been a while, so I might be remembering wrong." She tilts her head in thought. "Then again, my dad might have told it wrong to get me to listen to him."

[absolutesnark]

"Cinderella," Piper began. "I think this teaches children that if they are are positive and stay true to themselves, good things can happen. Dreams really can come true."

[brambless.livejournal.com]

"Alright," Tara nods. "And is there any part of it you have a moral issue with?"

[absolutesnark]

"I have a moral issue with the fact that Cinderella was pretty much a slave and did whatever her evil stepmother and stepsisters told her to."

[psycho-barbie.livejournal.com]

"The tale of Zeus and, well, anyone who'll stand still for five seconds. The moral of the story is as follows, don't sleep with Zeus because firstly, he's really into kink and you'll probably end up as some sort of animal, and secondly, Hera is a rabidly insecure, jealous bitch-queen, who will ignore the fact that Zeus's wandering eye is to blame and smack you down, probably turning you into some form of animal.

"It's a very sage peice of advice."

[brambless.livejournal.com]

Tara smothers her laugh, and nods seriously. "Now, I understand that where you come from that's a real concern... do you think it holds any morals as a story without, um, direct godly intervention?"