Final Ethics Class, Friday 8-10am

[brambless.livejournal.com]

"Over the course of this term, we've looked a lot at your personal moral stance on things. Today we're going to be looking more generally - on how morals are taught to children, often insidiously.

"A good medium for this is fairy tales. Every culture has them - stories that are told to children, bearing little moral gems to shape and guide. The first thing I want you to do is a select a fairy tale. Don't worry if it's not one I'll know, just pick one you're familiar with."

Comments

[brambless.livejournal.com]

"Okay. Got your fairy tale? Good. Now, pick it apart. What are the ethical concerns and considerations. What messages are actually being taught to children?

"To give you an example of what I mean - Goldilocks breaks into someone's house. She steals their food and destroys their belongings. And yet, she's the heroine of the story, the one that children are supposed to identify with. There are two possible messages that could be told here. One is that a hungry person in need of succour can take refuge anywhere, and that the normal laws of society are waived in such an instance. The other is that courteous behaviour is not required to those who are less than human.

"So what about yours? What moral messages does your fairy tale carry? Do you believe they're appropriate for the children of this society?"

[demonbelthazor]

Bel raised his hand. "We don't have fairy tales where I come from," he said.

[sensethevisions]

Phoebe looks at Tara, sadness in her eyes. "The Little Mermaid."

[forlornslayer.livejournal.com]

Buffy has been thinking about this since the class on Monday. In the Monday class, she had been silent and listened to everyone else make their analysis of their fairy tales and their ethics.

She finally looks up at Tara and says, "Beauty and the Beast."

[wraithbaitjohn.livejournal.com]

So, okay... Snow White.

There is one good point in the whole story - Never take candy poisoned apples from strangers. I mean, in today's society. DUH!

I guess there's actually two good points - Vanity will kick you in the ass. If they Wicked Queen hadn't kept asking the mirror day after day to stroke her ego, she may never had learned that there was a new Miss Enchanted Forest crowned that day.

And there's the whole don't stereotype little people thing. That's just rude.

Is it appropriate for small children today? Sure. I mean, don't get all hung up on the death and dying and sex thing, but the Disneyized sanitized versions are okay.

At least the evil person in this story isn't a step mother. I mean, in today's society children's stories need to be more sensitive to blended and non-traditional families.

[valentine-tart.livejournal.com]

"I was always kinda fond of that one with the elves and the shoemaker." Beka snorted, "Man never knew what a good thing he had. And those elves... They could have made so much money for themselves."

She paused, "I think the moral was something about how if you're really depressed, magical beings will lift up your spirits. I suppose that'd be kind of insidious for kids. Seeing as how magic is a lie. Mostly."

[mparkerceo.livejournal.com]

"Red Riding Hood," Parker says, eyes narrowing. "Don't talk to strangers; follow the rules; don't go off the path. And no matter how nice the wolf seems, he's probably a monster." She frowns, thinking. "Some of them are appopriate. At least for very small children. But by the time you grow up, you have to use your own judgment, and not follow the rules blindly. And maybe strangers are more trustworthy than people who send you out into the woods."

[marsheadtilt.livejournal.com]

"Hansel and Gretl," Veronica says. "It teaches children that they need to listen to their parents or something bad could happen. It also teaches them not to be greedy. I think it's very appropriate, but I don't understand why the evil women in all the fairy tales are depicted as witches." She smiles at Tara. "After all, the witches I know are all very nice." She glances around the room to grin at Piper and Phoebe as well.

[absolutesnark]

"Cinderella," Piper began. "I think this teaches children that if they are are positive and stay true to themselves, good things can happen. Dreams really can come true."

[psycho-barbie.livejournal.com]

"The tale of Zeus and, well, anyone who'll stand still for five seconds. The moral of the story is as follows, don't sleep with Zeus because firstly, he's really into kink and you'll probably end up as some sort of animal, and secondly, Hera is a rabidly insecure, jealous bitch-queen, who will ignore the fact that Zeus's wandering eye is to blame and smack you down, probably turning you into some form of animal.

"It's a very sage peice of advice."

Second Hour

[brambless.livejournal.com]

"Bringing moral development back to you - because this is our last session, and ultimately this course has always been about you, the individual. Lawrence Kohlberg suggested six categories of moral justification. I want you to put yourself into one of them."

Tara gestures to the board. "Here is your scenario."

A woman is near death from a unique kind of cancer. There is a drug that might save her. The drug costs $4,000 per dosage. The sick woman's husband, Heinz, went to everyone he knew to borrow the money and tried every legal means, but he could only get together about $2,000. He asked the doctor scientist who discovered the drug for a discount or let him pay later. But the doctor scientist refused.
Should Heinz break into the laboratory to steal the drug for his wife? Why or why not?

"Please not that your reasons are far, far more important than whether you decide he should or not."

Re: Second Hour

[demonbelthazor]

"Sure, why not?" Bel said. "If you want something, you take it. And it's not like he doesn't have reason enough to want it."

Re: Second Hour

[sensethevisions]

"He should steal it. His wife is dying and there's something that could help. Money should never be more important than another person's life."

Re: Second Hour

[forlornslayer.livejournal.com]

"Why is the medicine so expensive and is there a specific reason the doctor scientist is being such a tightass?"

Re: Second Hour

[wraithbaitjohn.livejournal.com]

Okay, I'm assuming that there are no medicare options or county hospitals and that this is the only option, right?

Steal it. Definitely. Something's not right when someone has the means to save a life and doesn't. If the guy's willing to sign a contract to pay off whatever amount each week or month or whatever, somethings problematic with the guy who's willing to let the woman die.

It's the Jean Valjean thing - he stole bread to stay alive. He risked - and endured - imprisonment because even that life was better than no life.

And I would assume the husband would feel the same way. He'd rather have her live and risk having to be imprisoned than have to live free without her.

Life trumps *everything*. Financial gain, risk of punishment, risk of social disaproval. Life wins everytime. It has too, because without it, what's the point?

Re: Second Hour

[valentine-tart.livejournal.com]

"She's family." Beka said simply. "He breaks in, or holds the scientist dude at gun-point. You don't mess with family."

Re: Second Hour

[mparkerceo.livejournal.com]

"Steal it, but make amends later. The wife's life trumps whatever the money's for, but that doctor can't make more of it if he doesn't have supplies and money to do it. Immediate need cancels out any of the reasons that doctor may have, although he might feel bound not to show bias to one customer."

Re: Second Hour

[marsheadtilt.livejournal.com]

"He should get some dirt on the doctor and bribe him into treating his wife. Everyone's got some secret they don't want getting out. That way he gets what he wants and minimizes his risks for trouble. Extortion is a lot harder to prove in court than theft."

Re: Second Hour

[absolutesnark]

"He should definitely steal it. The life of his wife is far more important than doing the right thing in this case."

Re: Second Hour

[psycho-barbie.livejournal.com]

"If he wants the medicine that badly, he should just take it."

Analysing your responses

[brambless.livejournal.com]

"Okay, now you've got your answer, let's analyse it. Put yourself into one of the following categories. Please remember that it's your justification, not your answer, that fits you into a category."

Tara passes around a handout, containing the following information:

Stage one - obedience. Individuals focus on the direct consequences that their actions will have for themselves. For example, Heinz should not steal the medicine, because he will consequently be put in prison.

Stage two - self interest. Right behavior is defined by what is in one's own best interest. Interest in the needs of others are limited to "you scratch my back, and I'll scratch yours." For example, Heinz should steal the medicine, because he will be much happier if he saves his wife, even if he will have to serve a prison sentence.

Stage three - conformity: Individuals are receptive of approval or disapproval from other people. They try to be a good boy or good girl having learned that there is inherent value in doing so. For example, Heinz should steal the medicine, because his wife expects it.

Stafe four - law and order. It is important to obey the laws and social conventions because of its importance to maintaining a working society. Moral reasoning in stage four is thus beyond the need for approval exhibited in stage three, because the individual understands that society needs to transcend individual needs. For example, Heinz should not steal the medicine, because the law prohibits stealing.

Stage five - human rights. Persons have certain principles to which they may attach more value than laws, such as human rights or social justice. In this reasoning, actions are wrong if they violate these ethical principles. Laws are regarded as social contracts rather than dictums, and must be changed when necessary (provided there is agreement). For example, Heinz should steal the medicine, because everyone has a right to live, regardless of the law. Or: Heinz should not steal the medicine, because the scientist has a right to fair compensation.

Stage six - universal sentient ethics. Moral reasoning is based on the use of abstract reasoning using universal ethical principles. One way to do this is by imagining oneself in everyone else's shoes, imagining what they would decide if they were doing the same. For example, Heinz should steal the medicine, because saving a human life is a more fundamental value than the property rights of another person. Or: Heinz should not steal the medicine, because that violates the golden rule of honesty and respect.

"I want you to identify where you are now - and where you'd like to be. That's all. Hand in your answers and any thoughts that generates, and you've finished this course. Grades will be posted on Monday."

Re: Analysing your responses

[wraithbaitjohn.livejournal.com]

I guess when you say "Life trumps everything" that kind of puts you at Stage 6, doesn't it? I swear I didn't cheat and look ahead.

And I'm okay with being there. It's kind of hard to put a pure ethical idiology into practical effect, but it does make you think twice before you act, so it's all good.

Emo Closet

[brambless.livejournal.com]

Here if you need it.

OOC

[brambless.livejournal.com]

Last class!

*sings the end of term song*

*yes, there is one*

*currently it's We don't need no education, but it may change if I think of something better.*

Re: OOC

[demonbelthazor]

OMG EMO

After Class

[marsheadtilt.livejournal.com]

After class, Veronica walks over to Tara.

"I'm really sorry to hear that you're leaving," she says, handing Tara a small package. "I've enjoyed your class and getting to know you. I hope our paths cross again some day."

When Tara opens the package, she'll find a small pin that looks like a handprint with the words "For Good" engraved on it.

Re: After Class

[brambless.livejournal.com]

"Veronica... thank you," Tara replies, deeply touched.

She strokes the pin for a moment before fixing it to her shirt.

"This is beautiful."