Ethics Class, Monday, 2-4pm

[brambless.livejournal.com]

"Angelus is gone," Tara informs the class solemnly. "Now, I know you've all heard the 'evil soul' excuse before, and that you're sick and tired of it. I am too. It would be nice if you could just trust that each person had only one face. However, with the number of unrelated identical twins running around the place, that was never going to happen, so let's all just let it go and deal with what is. Angelus is gone, and Angel is here.

"Most of you know that Angelus and I are Sunnydale expatriots. I assure you that I am in a better position than almost anyone you can think of to guarantee that he and Angel are very, very different people.

"With that in mind, today's discussion is about punishment for crimes done - and I say with that in mind, because if Angel does have the courage to walk through that door today, I will not tolerate anyone accusing him of crimes that were committed through his mouth and hands, but without his knowledge or consent. Please think of him as an unrelated identical twin, as different as Archie and Lee, or Cameron and John Crichton."

Comments

Before class

[brambless.livejournal.com]

Sign in, chat with your friends, catch up on the gossip, ply the teacher with questions about what you might have heard on the radio...

Re: Before class

[kawalsky.livejournal.com]

Charlie left where he'd been before class early to get to Ethics before anyone else to make sure he was on the ball. "Hey Professor."

Re: Before class

[forlornslayer.livejournal.com]

Buffy looks shaken when she approaches Tara, but there is also determination in her eyes. "Can we talk?"

Re: Before class

[soldtoarmenians]

Xander might be caught frowning at that last bit about accusing Angel of crimes. Frm the part where he's, well, frowning, and about to open his mouth to be an asshole.

"I gotta call nuh-uh on Angel's hands being clean, because they're not two separate people. Good to get confirmation that what they said on the radio is true and the lock's back on the cage, but it is a cage. Angelus isn't gone; he's still in there. He's just got a soul shoved into the same skull with him that keeps him more or less under control. Without the soul, Angel may be gone, but the demon's always there."

Re: Before class

[shane-mcc.livejournal.com]

Already signed in, Shane sits at her usual desk, looking drawn and tired and distracted. For once, she's not drumming her pen... it's just sitting there on the desktop and she stares at it, without really seeing it.

Re: Before class

[notstakedyet.livejournal.com]

Angel walked into class. He made a beeline for Tara.

"Hi..." he faltered, "Proffessor Maclay?"

[ooc: Will have him interact with the other students, but no way can I start that w/o establishing what he and Tara do first]

Re: Before class

[actingltcrumpet.livejournal.com]

Archie signs in, shaking his head in confusion over the entire announcement about Angel, though he's somewhat amused when his name comes up.

Re: Before class

[chasingangela]

Angela stands awkwardly by Tara's desk. "So it worked," she says slowly. "Are you okay?"

First Hour

[brambless.livejournal.com]

"Okay, here's your discussion topic: pick two classes of punishment, and by that I mean corporal, capital, imprisonment, fines, behavioural rehabilitation.

"Support one, and explain why you advocate it. Attack the other. What are the ethical issues surrounding each? And in what circumstances is it appropriate?"

[ooc: Yes, this is two questions, where Friday's class only got one. Friday's class was one question up on Monday's, though, so this brings us even. Trust me. I'm an Ethics teacher.]

Corporal Punishment

[brambless.livejournal.com]

(defined: physical abuse, such as caning or cutting off a hand)

Capital Punishment

[brambless.livejournal.com]

(defined: killing in punishment for a crime)

Imprisonment

[brambless.livejournal.com]

(defined: jail sentences, for example)

Behavioural Rehabilitation

[brambless.livejournal.com]

(defined: personality alteration by means of counselling, hypnosis, etc.)

Fines

[brambless.livejournal.com]

(defined: You can break the law if you can pay the price.)

Re: First Hour

[soldtoarmenians]

[ooc - OMG trusts you totally because you're a hot girl and I'm a hormonal teenage boy an Ethics teacher!]

Second Hour

[brambless.livejournal.com]

"Let's pretend that you run the world. This world, that we inhabit together in all our diversity, even if your home world is very different. Furthermore, let's pretend that you have all possible resources available to you, including those usually only found in the movies.

"How do you a wrongdoer who is a danger to society and the people within it? Explain to me your plan for punishment and/or rehabilitation, and justify why you think it would be effective."

Re: Second Hour

[soldtoarmenians]

"I dunno if there is a good plan. Not one that'll work in every case. Some people can learn from having the things they did blow up in their faces, and some people can't. Some of those people who can't - child molestors, say - are at least going to be safe and not hurt anybody if you lock them away from the people they usually go after. Control their life if you can't change them." Xander darts a glance at the newly-entered Angel. "Some people aren't ever gonna be safe, no matter how far behind bars you shove them, or how much they say they've changed. And the bitch of it is, you don't always know which is which."

Re: Second Hour

[shane-mcc.livejournal.com]

"I... I don't really wanna be in charge of running the world," Shane says quietly.

"But if I was... I guess... depending on how the person is dangerous to other people, it would depend on how they're punished. Kinda like now - or, I guess, where I came from. For the really dangerous people, like murderers," she says, but doesn't look in Angel's direction, just keeps her eyes focused on her hands as they're folded on top of her desk, "take them out of the general population to keep other people safe and then maybe... I don't know, talk to them, interview them somehow... to see if they could be rehabilitated with counselling. If not, then maybe try the other types."

Re: Second Hour

[allie-cameron.livejournal.com]

"Despite the corruption that exists in today's judicial system, I think the base idea is a good one," Allie says. "One type of punishment doesn't fit every crime. And there needs to be escalating punishment for repeated offenses."


[[However, if *I* ruled the world, hot guys with buff arms would be required to wear wife beaters all the time...]]

Re: Second Hour

[egyptianlove.livejournal.com]

"I agree with Xander. I don't think you can make one plan that will work for everyone. Even different people who commit similar crimes may respond better to different punishments." Evie frowns. "I guess, well, I think that rehabilitation would be more effective than imprisonment and capital punishment, though."

Re: Second Hour

[apocalypsesoon.livejournal.com]

"Make all the troublemakers part of the solution. They wanna fight? Make 'em fight. Discipline'm all up in the military. Second fuckup they do after getting a uniform, kill 'em."

John makes a certain point not to look at a certain part of the room where a certain person may or may not be.

Re: Second Hour

[chasingangela]

"I put him in solitary confinement for the rest of his natural life. Isolate the problem. In some ways, it nmight even be worse than death."

Emo Closet

[brambless.livejournal.com]

Here if you need it.

Re: Emo Closet

[forlornslayer.livejournal.com]

Buffy leads Tara into the Emo Closet. She waits for Tara to shut the door and then she hugs her friend.

"Alright, you've been through hell and I've heard what happened. You've been trying to take care of me since I got here, and now it's my turn to take care of you as well."

OOC

[brambless.livejournal.com]

You talkin' ta me?

Re: OOC

[oatmanspatient.livejournal.com]

ZOMGWTFBBQCHEESEGRATER! Tara is really Robert DeNiro!

After Class

[brambless.livejournal.com]

"For personal reasons, I didn't hold my usual office hours today. If there's anything you need to see me about, I'll be staying after class for a little bit."

Re: After Class

[notstakedyet.livejournal.com]

Once the class was over, Angel lingered. He watched the students file out. When there was enough of a space in the crowd for him to be heard, he said, "Angela?"