Nation Building and the Origin of Government, Period 5, Class 3, Thursday, 1-20

[glasses-justice.livejournal.com]

Today, class was meeting in the Danger Shop, which was only because Alex's students might want to speak with individuals themselves. and so I can play with NPC icons

"Last night was a busy one, in your country," she said, once everyone had filed in to a replica of their usual classroom. "You asked the patrol guards to keep their eyes open for any suspicious or questionable activity, and they found a fair amount. The official tally is on the blackboard."

The tally, on the blackboard, was in no particular order and read as follows:

• Two men engaged in a barfight; both were injured, one seriously.
• An alleged would-be burglar entered the home of a resident. The resident fired a gun at the presumed burglar. The presumed burglar is in critical condition.
• A homeless man stole several food items, at gunpoint, from a grocery store.
• A woman discovered her husband in bed with another woman, and stabbed him.
• A CEO hired an assassin to kill the CEO of the company's chief competitor; the hitman succeeded.
• Two adult siblings engaged in what both claim was consensual sex.
• A woman has been printing and mailing out a newsletter which insults you and spreads lies about your regime.
• A man gave a prostitute money in exchange for sexual favors.

"The patrol guards placed these people in separate cells. This is where the real fun starts. None of what happened last night was, technically speaking, illegal. We haven't instituted a formal rule of law yet. That doesn't mean we can't punish any or all of those people, if we see fit to do so, but it does remind us that we might want to put together some laws, and announce them to the populace at large. The populace won't automatically follow all of your rules, but it's nice for them to at least know what's against the law, and what punishment is assigned each crime.

"Leaving aside the issue of retroactive legality -- this is a thought experiment, so we can do that easily enough -- which of these people broke the law last night? What mitigating circumstances do we want to take into effect, when issuing punishment? And what exactly are we going to punish our citizens with? Death? Exile? Imprisonment?"

Alex nodded to the doorway on the side of the room. "We can summon anyone you like, for you to speak with, in case you'd like to get a clearer view of the facts of these cases. Next week, we're going to talk big picture, putting down rules and coming up with guidelines, instituting a police presence and determining the fate of criminals. This week? We're going to handle just these cases. Who broke the law, what law should we have in place to guard against that behavior, and what punishment should the guilty receive?"

Comments

Sign In - NAT03

[glasses-justice.livejournal.com]

Engaging in behavior which is immoral, unethical, illegal, or just plain tacky.

Re: Sign In - NAT03

[thinkbetterofme.livejournal.com]

Faramir

During the Lecture - NAT03

[glasses-justice.livejournal.com]

Take notes, pass them, wonder if you can make those patrol guards do your bidding ...

Re: During the Lecture - NAT03

[daventryprince.livejournal.com]

Alexander was jotting down the list on the board, so that he could better get an idea of what he thought about each of the scenarios before really making any decisions. He frowned down at the paper as he considered them, realizing that, though it would always make him a bit nervous to do so, upholding certain laws and standards was just something he'd have to do...

Re: During the Lecture - NAT03

[glacial_queen]

Oh, Darkness. This was going to bring up the 'My people have no laws against murder' explanation which then almost inevitably led to the 'but as Queen I can exact payment for the lives taken' explanation.

Maybe she could hide under the desk instead.

Re: During the Lecture - NAT03

[child-of-rer.livejournal.com]

Sov was taking notes. Some of the incidents mentioned made less sense than others (why would anyone care if siblings had sex? Why would anyone pay for sexual favours?) but the mention of someone robbing a grocery store made them frown. That was serious.

Re: During the Lecture - NAT03

[willbethenight.livejournal.com]

Honestly, Bruce would be happier doing the patrol on his own, but that would be a little too tough for the leader of a country.

...Probably.

Activity - Interrogations - NAT03

[glasses-justice.livejournal.com]

If you'd like to get the accused's side of the story, do so here. You can talk to anyone you'd like, regardless of how convinced you are of their innocence, or guilt; you aren't limited to the accused, either. The Danger Shop has several of the witnesses and victims handy, too.

If you want to play with an NPC, please specify which -- any of the people listed above (except, naturally, the dead CEO) as well as any possible witnesses (i.e., the grocery store clerk who was robbed).

Re: Activity - Interrogations - NAT03

[whateverknight.livejournal.com]

Squall considered the list of crimes.

"The two people in the bar fight," he decided. "Who started it?"

Re: Activity - Interrogations - NAT03

[glacial_queen]

Karla made a list of people she wanted to talk to:

--The siblings: to make sure this is indeed consensual and does not stem from any deep-seated mental, emotional, or physical trauma.

--Dissident: Does she actually believe what she's printing, or just stirring up trouble? What kind of lies is she printing; are they harmless? Does she have people backing her? Is so, who and why? Hobart?

--Burglar and resident, just to find out what really happened.

--CEO

Working from the lesser infringements to the greater, to let those who might not be guilty of anything go free sooner.

Re: Activity - Interrogations - NAT03

[thegirl-onfire.livejournal.com]

There were at least three people Katniss wanted to speak with, and she would have worked from order of importance, but her heart immediately ached for one.

"The homeless man," she requested softly.

Re: Activity - Interrogations - NAT03

[anarchist-queen.livejournal.com]

For the most part, all those things sounded like stuff the people could, and should take care of on their own. The CEO thing was exactly the kind of thing Leda would expect to happen when there were big corporations. Which was one of the reasons she was against them.

But she had the feeling she'd be less than civil if she tried to talk to him. "Let's start with the lady who doesn't like me."

Re: Activity - Interrogations - NAT03

[nohaircutsplz]

"I would like to speak to the person who has been spreading lies about me, please," Medusalith requested.

Discussion - Crime and Laws - NAT03

[glasses-justice.livejournal.com]

Who broke the law? What law are we going to put into place? What mitigating factors might affect the punishment they receive? How are we going to determine guilt or innocence? What happens when there's a gray area?

Also, who didn't break the law, and should be released with our apologies for those overzealous guards?

(tackle this any way you like -- you can name one person and address their issue, or you can list off some that broke a particular rule, or you can discuss who falls in what category and why you think so. also, please feel free to ping messily off one another.)

Re: Discussion - Crime and Laws - NAT03

[whateverknight.livejournal.com]

"The guy and his prostitute, and the siblings can all go free" Squall decided. "They're not hurting anyone. If someone thinks it's wrong, they can put laws in place later, but there are more important matters to deal with." He shrugged.

"The dissident and the homeless robber can also go free, but I want to talk to them first. I don't know if they should be considered criminals or not, and I don't care. They're engaging in understandable but counterproductive behavior, and I want them to stop, but punishing them wouldn't help anything."

"The murderers, and the person who shot the burglar, need to be dealt with. That sort of thing can't be allowed."

Re: Discussion - Crime and Laws - NAT03

[glacial_queen]

"The male who paid for sex can go," Karla said firmly. "So long as the who--the prostitute was of age and not coerced. Prostitution is not illegal, but it needs to be maintained and regulated. Before he goes, though, I'd like the information about this girl and any others he's paid for sex. The sooner we can get the Red Moon Houses regulated, the safer everyone will be--and the sooner we can get the revenue, which will be helpful."

Now for all the others...

Re: Discussion - Crime and Laws - NAT03

[nohaircutsplz]

"Did the dead man have children?" Medusalith wanted to know.

Re: Discussion - Crime and Laws - NAT03

[thegirl-onfire.livejournal.com]

"The homeless man didn't break the law," Katniss said, first and foremost. "That's my fault, not his. Why hasn't he been adequately helped? Why did it come to this? He doesn't get a punishment. He gets food and shelter, please." She'd sympathized a bit too much with that one.

"I also don't think the incestuous siblings broke the law. If one or both had been a child, that's different, but consenting adults? As long as they don't procreate, that's fine. The woman spreading lies about me is allowed her speech; I should be able to stand on my own merits, and the slander of one person shouldn't be enough to undo me. The person defending their home against a burglar should not be tried, but the burglar should."

She sighed, and added, "Everyone else is guilty. Crimes of passion are still crimes, and should still be punished. And prostitution shouldn't be legal, if only because of the danger involved in the profession."

Discussion - Punishment - NAT03

[glasses-justice.livejournal.com]

For any of the guilty parties, what happens now? Do we detain them? If so, for how long? Do we rehabilitate them? If so, how? Do we execute them? Do we exile them? Explain what punishment you would hand out and why, as well as what reasons might influence their punishment.

(again, handle the criminals in groups or one at a time, or just tackle a couple of them, however you want to approach it. feel free to disagree with each other, and make this messy.)

Re: Discussion - Punishment - NAT03

[whateverknight.livejournal.com]

"Execute the murderers," Squall decided. "The person who shot the robber, too. Now isn't the time to be lenient, with the country in chaos."

Re: Discussion - Punishment - NAT03

[daventryprince.livejournal.com]

After having considered all the scenarios carefully and with a bit of a worried look on his face for what he assumed was going to be considered an unusual response, Alexander stood and said, "I believe they should all be released. I am not sure apologies are necessary; the guards were merely acting on their own sense of justice, as they each were. I would be concerned, however, about the homeless man. I would like to see what has lead to his predicament and what we might do to help. I feel that news of the woman who stabbed her husband should be released, so that the people realize the shame that has befallen that family. I would likely send men to keep an eye on the one who hired the hitman and the ones in the barfight to make them think twice about such actions in the future, and I feel the others quite had a right to go about the business as they did."

Re: Discussion - Punishment - NAT03

[child-of-rer.livejournal.com]

"The person who robbed the grocery store should be exiled," Sov announced. "And the... CEO too." They weren't entirely sure what that meant.

Talk to the TA - NAT03

[glasses-justice.livejournal.com]

If she's here. (Alex doesn't know she's having a rough week, but she'll understand later if the TA needs to be a no-show.)

Re: Talk to the TA - NAT03

[glacial_queen]

Karla was here--she wouldn't have missed this class even if she hadn't been making it a point to go to every class she could.

As long this didn't turn into a fight with people halfway through, she'd even participate!

Talk to Alex - NAT03

[glasses-justice.livejournal.com]

She's here.

OOC - NAT03

[glasses-justice.livejournal.com]

IDEK, it made sense in my head?

Expect a lot of the NPCs to look like members of L&O: SVU. Because I have lots of those icons already, is all I'm saying.