Concepts of Justice and The Law [Period 4, Class #11, Mar 23]

[glasses-justice.livejournal.com]

This week, Alex was carrying a large styrofoam cup that she had filled with hot water. She was dunking a teabag into the cup as she talked, the string looped around two of her fingers so it wouldn't slip off. Tea-on-the-go.

"Afternoon," she said, nodding to her students. "First of all, I apologize that I wasn't as detached from the subject matter as I'd like to have been, last week. I try to present gray areas so that we can discuss all angles of a situation; having my own experiences color the talk don't do us any favors."

That was all she felt comfortable saying about that.

"The topic of civil court came up during last week's discussion, so I decided now was a good time for us to cover that. All of the law we've discussed this term has been criminal law. A citizen commits a crime, and the government, on behalf of the People, files charges. The case goes to trial, and the prosecution bears the burden of proof. If found guilty, the citizen will presumably be sent to prison.

"However. The judicial system can also settle disputes between two private parties, or between organizations. Let's say that you and a mechanic sign a contract, saying that you'll pay him $500 and he will replace your engine. After a week, the mechanic says he can't replace your engine, and returns the car -- but refuses to refund your money. You could argue that this is theft, and attempt to have him arrested on criminal charges, but it's going to be an uphill battle, and it won't get your money back. Instead, you would file a lawsuit in civil court, asking a judge to determine that he is in breach of his contract. If the judge agrees, the mechanic can be ordered to pay you the $500, plus possibly your fees for going to court, or a few hundred more in 'punitive' damages, to slap him on the wrist.

"Civil court also covers torts, wrongful acts that damage someone while not necessarily being criminal. If you cause harm to someone else from negligence and not malicious intent, the victim might file suit against you to pay for their medical bills, along with 'pain and suffering.' Damage doesn't have to be physical; libel and slander are both torts, and those involve maliciously damaging a person's reputation. It should be noted here that truth is a valid defense for libel and slander, regardless of the malice. So if the tabloids publish a sleazy article saying that you're a homewrecker who is sleeping with a politician, it's malicious, but you won't win a libel case if they can prove the affair happened.

"In civil court, the burden of proof is on the person filing charges. But the requirements are more lax. You don't need proof beyond a reasonable doubt; the jury only needs to believe that the allegation is more likely to be true than not. And while criminal trials require a jury to reach a unanimous verdict, civil court can settle with nine out of twelve agreeing." She offered a wry smile to her students. "As we're not at trial, I'd like to remind you that we're not obligated to agree on anything whatsoever. So let's talk about civil court."

Comments

Sign In - JST11

[glasses-justice.livejournal.com]

Objecting to this line of questioning, your honor!

(and if you give your reason for objecting, you will totally make my day here)

Re: Sign In - JST11

[endsthegame]

Andrew Wiggin, the defendant is currently too exhausted to testify.

Re: Sign In - JST11

[glacial_queen]

Karla, leading the witness!

During the Lecture - JST11

[glasses-justice.livejournal.com]

Write notes. Pass them. Talk discreetly. Stay civil.

Re: During the Lecture - JST11

[joan-notjane.livejournal.com]

Joan was a little scowly about this topic given what Andy Baker was putting her family through.

Re: During the Lecture - JST11

[bamf-tastic.livejournal.com]

Kurt studiously took notes.

And he had to wonder if Professor X had ever considered protecting mutants and/or stopping Magneto via a lawsuit.

Discussion - Civil Court - JST11

[glasses-justice.livejournal.com]

What situation might lead you to file suit against another person or a particular institution? Do you feel civil court is an adequate way of addressing wrongs that do not belong in criminal court? What offenses could be considered torts, but not crimes? How difficult (or easy) should it be for one party to file suit against another, and bring the matter to court?

Re: Discussion - Civil Court - JST11

[bamf-tastic.livejournal.com]

"So, suing somebody is just a big complicated way of asking a judge to decide who wins an argument?" Kurt asked. "Then how come everyone acts like it's just a way for whiny people to get money?"

Re: Discussion - Civil Court - JST11

[glasses-justice.livejournal.com]

"Good question," Alex said. "It's because the winner of the argument is usually awarded money, and because sometimes lawsuits are filed on very frivolous -- or what seem to be ludicrous, to the layperson -- grounds. If a burglar breaks into your house, and then breaks his legs because your basement stairs are rotted, should he be able to sue you for negligence?"

Re: Discussion - Civil Court - JST11

[notqueenyet.livejournal.com]

"It all seems so...money-based," Aravis said with no small amount of distaste. "The criminal court exists to bring justice. Civil court and these lawsuits seem, simply, like a means to extort money from another based on a claim. It should be very difficult, I should think. And certainly not a means of income."

Re: Discussion - Civil Court - JST11

[glasses-justice.livejournal.com]

"Difficult how?" Alex asked. "Should there be a certain standard of proof met before a person can file suit? Does your answer change if this is small claims court, where one person is suing his neighbor for $300 instead of millions?"

Re: Discussion - Civil Court - JST11

[momslilassassin]

Ben raised his hand. "It's not unheard of for nonhumans to sue for reparation in discrimination cases at home," he offered after consulting Wookieepedia.

Re: Discussion - Civil Court - JST11

[glasses-justice.livejournal.com]

"Fascinating," Alex said, tilting her head slightly at the boy. "Are the juries and judges usually human or non-? Are most of the suits successful?"

Re: Discussion - Civil Court - JST11

[blondecanary.livejournal.com]

"I think civil court has its place," Dinah said cautiously. "Especially if someone's lost income or property, or gotten hurt, because of someone else's screw-up. But I do wonder about the standards for the cases being brought. I mean, I know criminal courts have a grand jury first, to indict someone-- do they have anything like that for civil cases? Or does the judge just decide?"

Re: Discussion - Civil Court - JST11

[glasses-justice.livejournal.com]

"No grand juries," Alex said with a wry smile. "Having said that, someone filing a frivolous lawsuit can be counter-sued by the defendant, for court costs or punitive damages. A judge could take one look at a lawsuit, throw it out, and order the defendant to pay up."

Case Study - O. J. Simpson - JST11

[glasses-justice.livejournal.com]

An actor and retired athlete named O. J. Simpson was arrested and charged with the murder of his ex-wife and her alleged boyfriend. The trial was contentious, and ultimately the jury voted not guilty. Some jurors were quoted later as saying that they believed the defendant to be guilty, but felt the prosecution had not met its burden of proof.

The family members of the two victims then filed against Simpson in civil court, stating that he was responsible for the wrongful deaths of both parties. In this case, Simpson was found guilty, and the families were awarded millions of dollars.

Should families be encouraged to pursue civil justice, if they feel criminal has failed them? Does this violate Simpson's right against double jeopardy, even if he was not threatened with jail time? Does this send a strange message to society, that monetary fines can be used to punish someone for allegedly committing murder?

Re: Case Study - O. J. Simpson - JST11

[bamf-tastic.livejournal.com]

Kurt frowned. "Um. I guess it's a way to make sure justice is done? But... Couldn't he just have pointed to the trial and said 'see, I'm not guilty'? I mean, they don't really have any grounds to sue him, after that, do they?"

Re: Case Study - O. J. Simpson - JST11

[heromaniac]

"So, taking it away from murder... if someone ate all the cakes in a bakery, but there wasn't enough proof it was him beyond all doubt then he couldn't be charged. But there were a few eye witnesses that said he did it, so the civil court jury said they believed he did it, so he loses that time?"

Momoko frowned. "Then why not have a civil court trial first and then use that in the criminal trial as evidence?"

Talk to the TAs - JST11

[glasses-justice.livejournal.com]

If they are here. And not watching Judge Judy.

Re: Talk to the TAs - JST11

[glacial_queen]

Karla was here, but not feeling very well. She'd blame the cookies from her previous class, but she'd been feeling a little nauseous ever since she'd walked to school from the dorms.

Plus there'd been those really dreadful dreams last night. Today was shaping up to be a bad day.

Re: Talk to the TAs - JST11

[bamf-tastic.livejournal.com]

Kurt was most definitely not watching Judge Judy. And not just because Wapner was better, either.

Talk to Alex - JST11

[glasses-justice.livejournal.com]

She's here. And civil.

... come on, I held off on that pun until the end.

Re: Talk to Alex - JST11

[weetuskenraider]

Having missed two weeks of class, Tahiri knew she owed Professor Cabot at the very least an explanation for her whereabouts. A simplified explanation, since the entire thing was still too convoluted (and quite frankly ridiculous) to recount, but an explanation nonetheless.

"I'm sorry I haven't been in class the past couple of weeks," she said without preamble, approaching Alex after class with her hands behind her back in the slightly formal posture she'd adopted out of habit in situations like this. "I had some . . . fairly pressing things to deal with back home. I'm more than willing to make up for the work, if that's all right with you."

OOC - JST11

[glasses-justice.livejournal.com]

Sorry this is borderline late. I can't brain today, I have the tired. I keep staring off into space and realizing I haven't finished sentences I'm typing up. It might be naptime.

Re: OOC - JST11

[joan-notjane.livejournal.com]

I think Joan's gonna refrain from joining the convo today. She's a little bitter about the fact that the guy who was driving drunk and caused the accident that paralyzed her brother is suing her family because Kevin didn't take his keys.

Oh, show.