Ethics [Thursday, September 17, 1st period]

[sith_happened]

When the students came into the classroom, they found Anakin scrawling a quote on the board:

“In general, pride is at the bottom of all great mistakes.”--John Ruskin

He turned around with an eyebrow raised. "Is Master Ruskin correct? How about Master Lao Tzu? He said: 'Pride attaches undue importance to the superiority of one's status in the eyes of others; and shame is fear of humiliation at one's inferior status in the estimation of others. When one sets his heart on being highly esteemed, and achieves such rating, then he is automatically involved in fear of losing his status.'"

He began pacing around the room. "Does pride always go before a fall? Do we have to be humiliated before we can learn? How high do the stakes have to be before we'll admit we've made a mistake, or have been fooled?"

"In order to deal ethically with other people, we need to acknowledge this very human flaw in ourselves and others. We want to believe that we are different, better than everyone around us." His gaze sharpened. "We're not. Everything is connected. You, me, the desks, the rocks outside, the deer in the preserve, the annoying person in the dorm who plays their music too loudly. Take pride in being yourself, certainly," he concluded. "But don't for a moment believe that who you are makes you more than the person sitting next to you. Because that kind of pride is where you make your first mistake."

Comments

Sign in [Ethics 9/17]

[sith_happened]

With your haughtiest icon.

Re: Sign in [Ethics 9/17]

[gods-gymnast.livejournal.com]

Maron Kusakabe

Listen to the lecture [Ethics 9/17]

[sith_happened]

Take notes, pass notes, take a nap...prepare for detention on those last two, though.

Re: Listen to the lecture [Ethics 9/17]

[trigons_child]

Raven had felt fine before the lecture began, but after a few moments she began to experience a strange feeling. She couldn't give it a name, but something inside her stirred.

Re: Listen to the lecture [Ethics 9/17]

[azuldragon.livejournal.com]

Azula kept her eyes forward. This lesson pricked... in more ways than one.

"He's a good teacher," her mother's voice echoed in her head, "it's no wonder you call him 'sifu'."

Azula's jaw clenched and focused on the board.

Re: Listen to the lecture [Ethics 9/17]

[thismaskiwear.livejournal.com]

This, again, was a subject on which Katchoo had no shortage of Thoughts.

This, again, was something about which she was keeping her mouth fairly well shut within earshot of Francine.

Re: Listen to the lecture [Ethics 9/17]

[see-beyond.livejournal.com]

For someone that had never really experienced this, Jonas found himself relating to it nonetheless. Or, rather, he found himself relating it to his past, to his life, to the Community and the Elders who thought they were that right that everyone only needed to know what was chosen for them.

He took quick, messy notes (as always) but found himself wondering if, maybe, he'd been the wrong one. He'd thought he was better and he'd escaped because he wanted to be. Had that been wrong?

Re: Listen to the lecture [Ethics 9/17]

[officetightass]

For the first time Angela found herself not agreeing with the professor's lecture. It seemed to her that she had common sense and logic and wasn't an idiot, and therefore she was definitely more than certain other people. Even if they weren't sitting next to her right at this moment.

Re: Listen to the lecture [Ethics 9/17]

[life_inshadow]

Pride ... really wasn't Tara's problem; she was very much a light-under-the-bushel kind of girl. Still she dutifully took notes.

Re: Listen to the lecture [Ethics 9/17]

[icecoldfrost]

Was he serious? Emma was doing her best to keep her incredulity buried under her shields, the only outward sign of her annoyance was the tight grip on her pencil.

People were never going to be equals. Some were always going to be better, and some were worse, and Emma didn't see anything wrong in taking pride in that. False humility was a far more disgusting habit, as far as she was concerned.

Answer the questions [Ethics 9/17]

[sith_happened]

"Does pride always go before a fall? Do we have to be humiliated before we can learn? How high do the stakes have to be before we'll admit we've made a mistake, or have been fooled?"

Re: Answer the questions [Ethics 9/17]

[gods-gymnast.livejournal.com]

"Depends on if it would hurt someone else to not admit to it, or if it would hurt only me," Maron said, fussing with a bit of her hair. "My pride isn't as important as someone else pain."

Re: Answer the questions [Ethics 9/17]

[thatsamilkshake]

Francine sighed. "If we have to be humiliated before we can learn, I should have a PhD by now."

Re: Answer the questions [Ethics 9/17]

[onlysmokesnics.livejournal.com]

Hayley thought for a minute.

"I think pride can lead you to being vulnerable," she said, a rare moment of insight. "It doesn't really mean you're gonna fall, but. If you're overconfident, someone might surprise ya."

Re: Answer the questions [Ethics 9/17]

[longislandiceme]

Bobby shrugged. "I think the stakes are different for everyone," he said. "I'm not the smartest person ever, and I know that, so it's pretty easy for me to admit that oops, I was wrong. If you're, like, some super-genius or even someone who just thinks they're a genius, it can be a lot harder to admit to being wrong. Because there's all that outside pressure to be right all the time, you know?"

Re: Answer the questions [Ethics 9/17]

[trigons_child]

"I do not think humiliation is required to learn," Raven said, frowning slightly. "It is a different way of learning, though not one I would prefer."

Re: Answer the questions [Ethics 9/17]

[azuldragon.livejournal.com]

This was one lecture Azula didn't want to be any part of. It was hitting wounds that were still far too raw.

Pride wasn't her downfall. Paranoia, hallucinations... those were the cause not pride.

Azula opened her mouth to speak but she couldn't bring herself to speak.

Re: Answer the questions [Ethics 9/17]

[thismaskiwear.livejournal.com]

Katchoo shrugged. "Some people have a fall into a bottomless frikkin' pit coming to 'em for the amount of pride they have, and they pay gravity to fall asleep on the job."

Re: Answer the questions [Ethics 9/17]

[officetightass]

"I think maybe people with pride just have a better ability to tell when they've made a mistake, more than say, people who don't take pride in anything and make me fix all those mistakes and go on to make them some more," Angela said.

Welcome to Angela's future.

Re: Answer the questions [Ethics 9/17]

[see-beyond.livejournal.com]

Jonas shifted uncomfortably especially in light of the last question. He'd spent thirteen years being fooled, hadn't he?

"I don't know," Jonas admitted honestly. "Pride, that sort of thing, it wasn't...an issue where I came from. No one thought they were better then the other."

Because it wasn't allowed. Admitting that out loud, admitting you were better just wasn't done.

"So, there was no humiliation and no falling," he said, casting his eyes down. "Even if there's mistakes made, they're immediately rectified and hardly ever due to something like pride."

Re: Answer the questions [Ethics 9/17]

[guardianborn.livejournal.com]

"It's kinda - I dunno - too easy to say 'pride goes before a fall,'" Rose tried to work out the thoughts in her head. "Cause then every time someone screws up, it's all 'oh, she was prideful' and it's over."

Which wasn't really the point, no.

Re: Answer the questions [Ethics 9/17]

[abetterthief.livejournal.com]

Parker really wasn't quite grasping what was being talked about here. "If something's true, I'm not sure why believing it could lead to a fall. I'm a great thief; should I pretend I'm not because that's thinking I'm better than others? Even though I am?"

Talk to the TAs!

[sith_happened]

Hello, TAs!

Re: Talk to the TAs!

[trigons_child]

Raven was still inexplicably unsettled, but she was available for your TA needs.

Talk to Anakin [9/17]

[sith_happened]

Hello, Anakin!

Re: Talk to Anakin [9/17]

[azuldragon.livejournal.com]

"Master Skywalker," Azula said, stopping by after the class was finished.

OOC

[sith_happened]

I'm running in and out today (parents are coming in for the weekend) but I'll answer your pings as I can. As always, make the threads as messy as possible as you listen and reply to each others' replies. It's a discussion class: discuss!

...also as always, it's ridiculously easy to get a detention in Anakin's class.