Ethics [Tuesday, October 21, 2nd period]

[sith_happened]

Anakin leaned a little uncomfortably against his desk as he waited for the students to take their seats.

"Today we talk about diligence, temperance, and forgiveness," he said quietly, "and we're going to use examples from last week's exercise to do so."

He flipped the hologram to life, focusing on a shot of Palpatine's face. "The goal was to save this man, the democratically chosen leader of your galaxy, at the cost--if necessary--of your own lives. After the first dozen or so droids shooting at you, you certainly had the option of retreating and leaving the mission for someone else to complete. So when does diligence turn to foolhardiness?"

The holocam switched to footage of two Jedi, blue blades flashing, taking on an older man wielding a red lightsaber. The battle was moving at least three times as fast as the exercise had. The older Jedi went ricocheting into a wall, then the second one, fire in his eyes, closed in on their opponent. A few moments later the Sith dropped to his knees with two lightsabers held to his throat.

The Jedi wielding the lightsabers looked an awful lot like their teacher.

"Temperance," Anakin said softly. "Do you kill him now? He's dangerous. He held the head of a galaxy-wide government hostage. He injured your partner. He certainly tried to kill you first. Or do you capture him and leave him to the whims of the courts?"

He shook his head. "Finally, forgiveness. You save the chancellor, at great personal expense, only to discover he's not the kind of man you thought he was. Your act of heroism has managed to make the situation at home much, much worse. How do you forgive yourself for it? Can you forgive the others who put you into that position?"

Comments

Sign in [10/21]

[sith_happened]

With your most unforgiving icon.

Re: Sign in [10/21]

[endsthegame]

Andrew Wiggin

Re: Sign in [10/21]

[darkangelsawyer.livejournal.com]

Peyton Sawyer

Answer the discussion question: diligence

[sith_happened]

When they're shooting at you, when does diligence turn into foolhardiness?

Answer each other's replies, make the threads messy, etc., etc.

Re: Answer the discussion question: diligence

[endsthegame]

That was the easiest question out of all of them. "If there's no possibility left to win," he said, evenly. "And anything bigger won't be helped by what progress you'd make before you die."

Re: Answer the discussion question: diligence

[stupid-toasters.livejournal.com]

"When it's hopeless," Lee decided. "When the only thing that's going to happen is you're gonna die uselessly, that's when it's foolhardy. If you can do something while being shot up, it's still diligence."

Re: Answer the discussion question: diligence

[bad-nose-job.livejournal.com]

"When there is no other outcome but death," she stated simply, quietly.

Re: Answer the discussion question: diligence

[yourwhiteknight.livejournal.com]

"When all of your options are exhausted and the only thing left is death then it's time to give up. Getting yourself wouldn't help anything," Harvey said.

Re: Answer the discussion question: diligence

[darkangelsawyer.livejournal.com]

"I think when there's no hope left - if there's no way you can do what you need to do even if you die, well..."

Re: Answer the discussion question: diligence

[ella-obeys.livejournal.com]

"As late as possible," Ella decided. "You have to fight as long as you can, but if death is the alternative, there's no shame in backing down."

Re: Answer the discussion question: diligence

[finding-x-dream.livejournal.com]

"Every situation is different," Agnes pondered. "I guess you need to balance how likely it is you'll succeed with how important it is for you to succeed. If the world's about to end, it's a lot harder to call something foolhardy."

Re: Answer the discussion question: diligence

[kestrelswolf.livejournal.com]

"Am not knowing this word, 'diligence'," Firekeeper admitted with a frown.

Re: Answer the discussion question: diligence

[meg-powers.livejournal.com]

"When the only thing you're going to accomplish is getting yourself killed," Meg said, realizing she was agreeing with most of the class. "You accomplish more by living to fight another day."

Re: Answer the discussion question: diligence

[pyroliz.livejournal.com]

"When it get to the stage that you're only going to get yourself killed if you keep forcing yourself to keep going," Liz said quietly.

Re: Answer the discussion question: diligence

[laidanegg.livejournal.com]

Those three words that Bruce loved so much immediately sprang to Dick's mind. 'Whatever it takes.' Dick knew that he'd crossed into foolhardiness more times than was probably recommended. Considering what his extracurricular activities involved, this was probably not a surprise.

But that was the hidden Dick Grayson. The Dick Grayson who was sitting in this class right now asked, "Pretty early unless you're really dedicated to being a hero. If you really have that many things attacking you, the plan can't be going all that well. It's probably time to rethink things and maybe get some backup."

Answer the discussion question: temperance

[sith_happened]

The man was old, definitely evil, and pissing you off. Kill him?

Re: Answer the discussion question: temperance

[stupid-toasters.livejournal.com]

"Yes," Lee said. "If he wasn't killed, he'd go keep killing others and I might be in the next batch of those killed. Take him out now, stop that from happening."

Re: Answer the discussion question: temperance

[endsthegame]

"How dangerous is he going to keep being if he's captured?" Ender asked, "There's no point to killing him if he's not making you." He had enough deaths to his name. But the immediate ones, the human ones, had been in the moment, and a battle like this could be ended in the courts. "There's no immediate threat left."

And maybe he could believe that he would, too. He'd been tried and tested about this before.

It left him with the feeling he was still lying through his teeth, strategically sound as his words had been.

Re: Answer the discussion question: temperance

[dojima-hime.livejournal.com]

Dōjima really hated this class.

"How, exactly, are you supposed to bring him to trial?" she asked dryly. "He's dangerous, even without that flashy stick, and trying to keep him alive is just going to put anyone you come into contact with at risk. The longer he's alive, the greater the chance of a higher body count, and then it will be your fault."

Re: Answer the discussion question: temperance

[yourwhiteknight.livejournal.com]

"In this case where the man was clearly guilty, yes. He would have just kept on killing people if you hadn't," he said. "Letting him go, even if you think you have him captured, is dangerous and irresponsible."

Re: Answer the discussion question: temperance

[bad-nose-job.livejournal.com]

"No," she said.

Answer the discussion question: forgiveness

[sith_happened]

Can you forgive yourself for making a wrong choice? Would you have chosen to save the chancellor if you'd known it was going to screw up the future?

Re: Answer the discussion question: forgiveness

[stupid-toasters.livejournal.com]

"Probably couldn't forgive myself," he said after some thought. "If I made a choice and frakked up everything and all that was on my shoulders, there'd be no way to forgive myself. I'd still have probably killed the man and hoped that I could both do that and make things okay. Stupid thinking but I'm sure that's how I would have thought."

Talk to the TAs

[sith_happened]

That's what they're here for...

Re: Talk to the TAs

[endsthegame]

Ender was here, and looking just a little thoughtful. If he was uncomfortable at all, he was hiding it fairly well.

Talk to Anakin

[sith_happened]

"I realize this weekend is Parents, Guardian and Assorted Family and Friends Weekend," Anakin said. "I will be holding office hours on Saturday if any of your people would be interested in meeting me."

He was also around for further discussion after class.

OOC

[sith_happened]

No ending the world before PW!

Re: OOC

[weetuskenraider]

Busy busy busy again -- will tag into discussion questions when I get home from work and have the brain cells to spare for good answers for sure, though, because I can't not.