Ethics [Tuesday, September 16, 2nd period]

[sith_happened]

When the students came into the classroom, they found Anakin scrawling a quote on the board:

“In general, pride is at the bottom of all great mistakes.”--John Ruskin

He turned around with an eyebrow raised. "Is Master Ruskin correct? How about Master Lao Tzu? He said: 'Pride attaches undue importance to the superiority of one's status in the eyes of others; and shame is fear of humiliation at one's inferior status in the estimation of others. When one sets his heart on being highly esteemed, and achieves such rating, then he is automatically involved in fear of losing his status.'"

He began pacing around the room. "Does pride always go before a fall? Do we have to be humiliated before we can learn? How high do the stakes have to be before we'll admit we've made a mistake, or have been fooled?"

"In order to deal ethically with other people, we need to acknowledge this very human flaw in ourselves and others. We want to believe that we are different, better than everyone around us." His gaze sharpened. "We're not. Everything is connected. You, me, the desks, the rocks outside, the deer in the preserve, the annoying person in the dorm who plays their music too loudly. Take pride in being yourself, certainly," he concluded. "But don't for a moment believe that who you are makes you more than the person sitting next to you. Because that kind of pride is where you make your first mistake."

Comments

Answer discussion question #1 [9/16]

[sith_happened]

"Do we have to be humiliated before we can learn?"

Re: Answer discussion question #1 [9/16]

[darkangelsawyer.livejournal.com]

"I don't think so," Peyton said. "And I don't think it's pride that usually gets me in trouble. It's fear."

Re: Answer discussion question #1 [9/16]

[sith_happened]

"How so?" Anakin asked.

Re: Answer discussion question #1 [9/16]

[bad-nose-job.livejournal.com]

"Sometimes," she answered quietly, glancing around the room shyly. "In those moments, you set yourself up for a fall but you don't realize it because you can't see it. All you see is your goal ahead, what you want to achieve, so you, your feelings, are the only things that matter and you'll do almost anything..." she paused, bit her lip though that tiny, worrisome gesture was not seen. Penelope didn't say anything else.

Re: Answer discussion question #1 [9/16]

[sith_happened]

Anakin nodded. "And that's when things start going wrong," he finished quietly. "Right?"

Re: Answer discussion question #1 [9/16]

[laidanegg.livejournal.com]

"No," Dick said. "Usually something has to happen, but it doesn't need to be humiliation or hubris or anything like that. You can learn just as well from something good or something tragic that has nothing to do with pride."

Re: Answer discussion question #1 [9/16]

[sith_happened]

"Give me an example of learning from something good, then," Anakin "Glass Half Empty" Skywalker replied.

Re: Answer discussion question #1 [9/16]

[kestrelswolf.livejournal.com]

"Do not have to be," Firekeeper shrugged. "But sometimes is helping."

Re: Answer discussion question #1 [9/16]

[sith_happened]

"Why do you think it helps?" Anakin asked.

Re: Answer discussion question #1 [9/16]

[yourwhiteknight.livejournal.com]

"I think it helps the learning process," Harvey admitted. "You're a lot more likely to shut up and listen to someone else if you've been put in your place beforehand."

Re: Answer discussion question #1 [9/16]

[sith_happened]

"I've always thought so," Anakin replied with a quick upturn of his lips, "but that was also how I was taught."

Not that that had worked out so well, Anakin.

"Why do you think it takes such measures to get some people to, as you say, shut up and listen?"

Re: Answer discussion question #1 [9/16]

[lil-yellow.livejournal.com]

"Humiliation seems to imply a deep sort of shaming," Bumblebee said. "I think that it is possible to learn humility without humiliation, to set aside your pride before it causes you to fall too far."

Re: Answer discussion question #1 [9/16]

[sith_happened]

"Oh yes?" Anakin replied, sounding interested. "Can you provide an example of that?"

Re: Answer discussion question #1 [9/16]

[weetuskenraider]

"Not necessarily," Tahiri said, "but you don't tend to forget the lessons that hurt the most. It doesn't have to be humiliation, though. A really close call, or getting betrayed, or loss . . ."

Re: Answer discussion question #1 [9/16]

[sith_happened]

Anakin nodded. "Jedi rather excel at those kinds of lessons, don't we?"

Re: Answer discussion question #1 [9/16]

[talon-wraith.livejournal.com]

"For most people, I don't believe so, no. But it certainly drives the point home." Donos spun his pencil in his fingers, watching it rather than looking up. "Sometimes people do need to repeat their mistakes over and over, thinking that perhaps it's not their fault - and only something completely humiliating or heartbreaking can make them see that it is." He lapsed into uncomfortable silence.

Re: Answer discussion question #1 [9/16]

[firebringerborn.livejournal.com]

"It depends on whether you want to learn what it is that is being taught," Jan said after a moment's thought, swishing his tail contemplatively. "If you are sure you already know everything, then you are not going to learn unless you are forced to accept that you do not. In that case, hurt, humiliation, they will all be necessary before you can accept the lesson. If you wish to learn, if you are eager for the lesson, you already know you don't know everything so no hurt or humiliation is necessary."

Ironically enough, he was quite proud of his answer, ears alert and eyes bright as he finished.

Re: Answer discussion question #1 [9/16]

[always-damp.livejournal.com]

"Totally," Toby nodded. "I know I always pay better attention when the teacher does the whole fear thing."

Re: Answer discussion question #1 [9/16]

[stupid-toasters.livejournal.com]

"No," Lee said. "But sometimes being humiliated helps you learn a hard lesson faster."

Re: Answer discussion question #1 [9/16]

[ella-obeys.livejournal.com]

"I don't think the two are related," Ella said. "I know someone" -- Hattie -- "who could be humiliated all day and learn nothing. And others might learn without humiliation."

"But," she added, pinkening a bit, "perhaps it sometimes helps."

Re: Answer discussion question #1 [9/16]

[pyroliz.livejournal.com]

"I don't think it always has to be humiliation," Liz said quietly, "I think there are other methods that can be used for learning,"

Re: Answer discussion question #1 [9/16]

[dojima-hime.livejournal.com]

"I'd think humiliation would just aggravate the problem, whatever it was," Dōjima replied. "Deliberately making someone defensive about what they did or why they did it is only asking for more trouble."

Re: Answer discussion question #1 [9/16]

[noboynextdoor.livejournal.com]

"Some people do," Jess said. "If they're slow learners."

Re: Answer discussion question #1 [9/16]

[grasshopper-mol.livejournal.com]

"No," Molly shook her head. "At least, I don't think so?"

Re: Answer discussion question #1 [9/16]

[finding-x-dream.livejournal.com]

"No, but it helps," Agnes answered. "Shame's a pretty good teacher. Of course, sometimes it only teaches you how to keep your head down and hide from people."