Ethics [Thursday, September 6]

[sith_happened]

Anakin walked into his classroom precisely on time and gave the students assembled there an appraising glance.

It wasn't possible to tell what he thought of them.

"I'm Master Skywalker," he said in a voice that was intended to carry, "this is Ethics, and we're going to skip the introductions--I'll figure out who you are--and move straight to our first discussion."

He paced around the room, cloak flaring out behind him, as he handed out the syllabus. "Today's topic," he said. "Self sacrifice: knowing the difference between saving people and being a pretentious twit."

"Any time I ask a a group of people what they would do to save someone they love, they all blither on about how they would set the world on fire, lie, cheat, steal, kill, die, et cetera, et cetera. I've been at this school too long to believe that half of you haven't already been put into this situation and I'm in no mood to hear adolescent ramblings about how wonderful you were or might hypothetically be. We're going to ground it in reality.

"A month ago there was a woman who was in charge of this school. She had been placed in power legitimately, was allowed to punish in accordance with that power, and began pushing the boundaries of her authority almost immediately. She called students to her office, punished them for slights genuine or imagined, and began escalating the severity and frequency of her punishments, going over the line into what was no longer acceptable."

Anakin crossed his arms over his chest, the scar across his face very evident in the light coming through the window. "It eventually took a team of highly qualified adults to take her out. Today's topic: when do you draw the line? When do you admit to yourself that a problem cannot be solved, that to sacrifice yourself isn't a statement, it's merely pointless? How long does it take for you to check your ego?"

Comments

Answer the discussion question

[sith_happened]

Feel free to react to other character's replies, too. This class is all about discussion. Make the threads as messy as you like.

Re: Answer the discussion question

[notqueenyet.livejournal.com]

"It depends on how many lives would be saved if I lost mine," Aravis replied quietly. "If it's not of benefit to the greater good -- even if the greater good means that just one other person might live because of my sacrifice -- then what is the point? Bold statements don't help you if you're dead. But if just one innocent person is saved, then yes, it's worth it and it's not an ego thing."

Re: Answer the discussion question

[sith_happened]

"What do you count as an innocent?" Anakin asked.

Re: Answer the discussion question

[moonbrain-tam.livejournal.com]

"My intervention would be dependent on an evaluation of my powers compared to those opposing me." As she had told Kerrigan the other day she could not openly fight the Alliance. She could not go against anyone using magic, that frightening yet tempting power. Give her a bunch of reavers any day.

Re: Answer the discussion question

[sith_happened]

Anakin nodded. "And how close would the odds have to be for you to attempt anything?" he asked.

Re: Answer the discussion question

[wheresurgodnow.livejournal.com]

Eventually Haruhi lifted her head, realizing that the lecture was over.

Right, she had to answer a topic question, didn't she? "Heh, problems, sacrifice, whatever," she muttered. "If you find yourself in such a huge problem, then maybe you shouldn't have been a dimwit and gotten yourself in that issue in the first place."

Re: Answer the discussion question

[sith_happened]

"I'm pleased that you could wake up and join us," Anakin said in a tone sharp enough to cut things. "Why have you made the assumption that you caused the problem yourself? Perhaps you are merely in the wrong place at the wrong time--a bank that is being robbed, for example."

Re: Answer the discussion question

[sixstandingby.livejournal.com]

"I...don't really know," Gavin answered honestly. He figured honesty would be good here. "I haven't run into a pointless situation yet. Even if you lose a battle, lose friends, it's always led, for me, to a change in tactics, strategy, that allows us to better strike at the..." He stopped and shook himself of that. "It allows for things to be looked at differently."

Re: Answer the discussion question

[sith_happened]

"Let me ground it in something familiar to you, then," Anakin said. "An outnumbered, undergunned organization decides to take their fight against the one of the most powerful militaries that had ever existed using spotty intelligence and a vain hope that their convictions will be able to tip the balance of power. They also believe that the massive superweapon the military is rebuilding is not yet completed. Pretend you don't how Endor ended: would you have argued for or against the plan? What if you had known the superweapon was operational?"

Re: Answer the discussion question

[witchy-prue.livejournal.com]

Yeah, Anakin was talking to the chick who ended up getting herself killed to save only a handful of people. Prue was never going to check her ego, even in the afterlife.

"I'd do anything to prevent my sisters getting hurt. I don't care if it's pointless. Even if my death will only push back the inevitable then I'll still go through with it." she said. She really hoped she didn't sound crazy.

Re: Answer the discussion question

[sith_happened]

"Family can be an incredibly powerful blind spot," Anakin replied, "but let's not overstep. Would you leap in front of a bus because one of them was too busy talking on their cell phone to notice it coming?" He gave her a small smile. "Go on their dates for them so they avoid the pain of a break-up? Refuse to allow them near an oven, an iron or hot water? Even with family, you have to draw a line. Pain teaches us things: normally the lessons we most need to understand."

Re: Answer the discussion question

[solo_sword]

"I think it depends on your own personal definitions," said Jaina. "People generally will do what they can to survive, so if someone is in a situation where they're going to die for a cause and they haven't yet decided they'd rather go on breathing, they probably don't think it's pointless."

Re: Answer the discussion question

[sith_happened]

"Very Jedi of you," Anakin said. "Have you decided where your line is?"

Re: Answer the discussion question

[honoraryphd.livejournal.com]

"Sacrificing yourself is rarely anything but pointless," Victor said. "If you get to the point where your only options are self-sacrifice or losing, you simply aren't thinking hard enough. Raise the stakes, make your opponents sacrifice themselves."

Victor likely would have enjoyed Darth Vader's Ethics class more.

Re: Answer the discussion question

[sith_happened]

Anakin nodded thoughtfully. "You're in a ship with the leader of your nation and your best friend," though something was telling him this student might not be entirely familiar with the concept of best friend, "and the back of the ship has caught fire. You're in a death plunge towards the planet. If the ship hits the ground, tens of thousands of lives will be lost, including your own. You're the best pilot of the three of them, your best friend is wounded and the chancellor will not stop whining. What do you do?"

Re: Answer the discussion question

[jedi-qui.livejournal.com]

"There's always a solution to the problem," Qui-Gon said. "But sometimes the solution is to back off and live to solve it another day. You have to put aside emotion and try and look at the situation objectively. Sacrificing yourself in a hopeless situation can feel brave and noble and satisfying, but it just leaves the problem for someone else to deal with. Also you won't be around to deal with the next problem that crops up. So it wouldn't just be your life you were sacrificing, but all those you could've saved in the future."

Re: Answer the discussion question

[sith_happened]

"First rule of Jedi combat: survive," Anakin said, nodding, "but the records are full of Jedi who didn't heed that. Do you believe our penchant for heroic self-sacrifice is noble or counterproductive?"

Re: Answer the discussion question

[irulan-atreides.livejournal.com]

Irulan thought about it, "The only reason for self-sacrifice would be if you're sure your sacrifice would be worth something that in the end your death turns you into the figurehead of a revolution. Anything less than that is pointless."

Re: Answer the discussion question

[sith_happened]

"So the sacrifice is only worthwhile if it'll get you a statue?" Anakin asked, blinking. "Quiet acts are useless?"

Re: Answer the discussion question

[im-fullmetal.livejournal.com]

Edward frowned, rubbing his hand over the join of his right shoulder. "When your sacrifice would hurt people more than it would help."

Re: Answer the discussion question

[notafairmaiden.livejournal.com]

Gwynn was quiet as she listened to the other answers.

"I honestly do not know. I have gotten into trouble back home for letting my ego think I could save the day... and it didn't. On the other hand, there were times I went by caution and should have acted instead." She bit her lip. "There are times that the line between ego and real sacrifice is blurry."

Re: Answer the discussion question

[key-of-heart.livejournal.com]

Sora thought about the problem, giving it quite a bit of thought. Well, for him. "If that person was hurting other for no reason. They needed to be stopped no matter what!" He said veheminantly.

Re: Answer the discussion question

[missed-the-gate.livejournal.com]

"I'm interested to know which category willingness to give your life for your country falls into," John said, completely serious. "When joining the military, you have to be willing to put yourself on the line based on orders. Is that self sacrifice or being a twit?"

Re: Answer the discussion question

[sarcasm-guy.livejournal.com]

"Sacrificing yourself is a LAST resort," Sokka pointed out arrogantly, "when there's nothing else you can do. It's better to live for a cause than die for it."

He shrugged. "But, on the other hand, when you're a warrior, you put your life on the line all the time. There's always the possibility you might not come out of a battle alive. That's not the same thing."

Re: Answer the discussion question

[sound-loyalty.livejournal.com]

"I'm not about to get into a situation that would require me to sacrifice myself 'for the good of all'." Kabuto snorted, shaking his head. "There's no point in dying for something you wouldn't be able to benefit from."