Liliana Vess (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
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fandomhigh2025-06-19 05:07 am
deathsmajesty) wrote in fandomhigh2025-06-19 05:07 am
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Ethical Dilemmas, Thursday, (Per 1)
Once again, breakfast was laid out amongst tables and people were free to find their own seats and make themselves comfortable for what would be another casual, relaxing day in Ethics class.
"Magic - or powers similar to magic, like the Force - can, like all forms of power, be used for both wonders and atrocities. Magic may be able to heal grievous wounds that would be beyond the power of normal medicine to cure, can cause crops to grow out of even the most blighted soil, might protect fleeing refugees from dangers like infernos or tidal waves or cyclones. Conversely, magic can be used to cause all those things. Magic might be able to destroy someone's body and mind past the ability of anyone to mend, might blight soil, may create and direct infernos and tidal waves or cyclones towards population centers. In many places, magic is feared more than it is loved; it is often rare, accessible by only a small percentage of the population, it can be wild and uncontrolled, and even when magic is used to help, it can be hard to forget that you are still watching someone ignore the natural laws of the plane to reshape reality to their will. Magic creates a power imbalance; if I can stop a heart with a single gesture, then you really ought to do what I want, no? In order to keep your heart beating normally? Or, perhaps it's not your heart you're worried about me stopping, but your spouse's, your parents', your siblings', your children's. If I can read your mind, I can learn all your secrets, all your private, innermost thoughts. And if I can influence your mind, can you trust that what you are thinking and feeling - or even seeing and hearing - are true? Or will you always worry that you're being manipulated by my powers?
"Now, in most cases, magic users - or their equivalents - are regular people, no better or worse than any other. The idea of setting a man on fire with their power is as horrific a thought to them as it is to someone who would have to gather wood and a match to do the same. But, as it is frequently - and reductively - said, power tends to corrupt. The more power someone has and the further insulated from the negative consequences of their actions, the harder it is to remember whatever ethics or morals that might have guided their behavior beforehand. This is true whether we're talking magic, physical strength, political power, or great wealth.
"With this in mind, our scenario today. There is a pre-industrial city - we'll call it Omelas again, why not? - where the power difference between mages and normal humans is so great that after generations of rule, the magic users have become tyrants. They take what they want whenever they want, and no one without magic can stop them. The lower classes are suffering because the fruits of their labors are claimed by magic elite. Deprivation is common; few people starve, but they are gaunt and stooped from hunger. Winters are cruel, as they attempt to stave off freezing for another day; though at a mage's whim, they may be displaced from their homes and forced to find shelter elsewhere, even in the bitterest weather. To speak rudely to a magic user is grounds for punishment; minor disrespect - like forgetting a ma'am or sir, or sounding displeased to be speaking to them - is usually punished with a blow to the face, more serious infractions might result in a whipping. To steal from a magic user is punishable by maiming, and to harm one can result in an entire family being punished for the crime. Of course, there is no such protections the other way around; to take something you want from a non-magic user is seen as a mage's right - and if sometimes that something is actually a someone, well, who would stop you? The lives of non-magic users are cheap and spend easily; there is not a single home or family that has not lost someone because a mage was feeling frustrated and lashed out with their magic. All but the very youngest children have seen it happen. Basically, everything that happens when one group of people think of another group as less than human, or even particularly expensive livestock. Non-mages are used and abused, with no hope of recourse.
"Then, one day, you are approached by someone, who wants to tell you of this amazing new weapon they have just invented, they're calling it a gun. They say it can replicate the power of a mage - you can kill someone from a distance, and faster even than a blink of an eye. And these guns are so powerful that anyone can use them; young or old, ill or hale, weak or strong. With the right training, even children can use these amazing things! You simply need to point and squeeze and something dies. They're hailing these weapons as the Great Equilizer, with this, they can possibly shift the balance of power away from the corrupt magic users and into the hands of the people. They have created a prototype - and it works! - but they need your assistance to make these on a grand scale. Without your help, it will be impossible.
"You are aware that, yes, with enough guns, the people of this city can rise up and revolt against the magic users. It will be an ugly and brutal fight, and there's no guarantee who will win, but the people will have the ability to fight back in a way they never have before. But you also know that there is no putting the djinn back into the ring if you let this proceed. Instead of an incredible killing power being limited to a small percent of the population the way magic is, it will be available to almost anyone. Killing will become easy, distant. They can easily fall into the hands of children - some people may even give them to children deliberately. Of course, just having a gun doesn't automatically confer skill at aiming or an innate knowledge of gun safety. Friendly fire most certainly isn't, as they are about to find out. And the guns will last beyond the rule of the mages, if the mages are indeed brought down--do you really believe that people will run out of targets when there aren't any more mages to shoot? Of course not, they'll just start aiming at each other.
"So," Liliana asked, as she did every week. "What will you do? What is the most ethical way forward? Do you lend your assistance to create a weapon that can and will make death even easier, even faster, even cheaper? Or do you refuse, and prolong their suffering under corruption and tyranny?"
[This post describes abuses of people at the hands of a privileged elite, as well as guns and the potential repercussions of introducing them to your standard, pre-industrial fantasy population. The post does mention the possibility of giving guns to children, but not in any way that evokes modern gun violence (especially in schools), but to highlight the drawbacks of both sides of the ethical decision. The underlying premise of this post taken from Vox Machina S03E07, showing Anna Ripley's tragic backstory and her subsequent offer to Percy is what gave me the idea for Liliana teaching this class in the first place.]
"Magic - or powers similar to magic, like the Force - can, like all forms of power, be used for both wonders and atrocities. Magic may be able to heal grievous wounds that would be beyond the power of normal medicine to cure, can cause crops to grow out of even the most blighted soil, might protect fleeing refugees from dangers like infernos or tidal waves or cyclones. Conversely, magic can be used to cause all those things. Magic might be able to destroy someone's body and mind past the ability of anyone to mend, might blight soil, may create and direct infernos and tidal waves or cyclones towards population centers. In many places, magic is feared more than it is loved; it is often rare, accessible by only a small percentage of the population, it can be wild and uncontrolled, and even when magic is used to help, it can be hard to forget that you are still watching someone ignore the natural laws of the plane to reshape reality to their will. Magic creates a power imbalance; if I can stop a heart with a single gesture, then you really ought to do what I want, no? In order to keep your heart beating normally? Or, perhaps it's not your heart you're worried about me stopping, but your spouse's, your parents', your siblings', your children's. If I can read your mind, I can learn all your secrets, all your private, innermost thoughts. And if I can influence your mind, can you trust that what you are thinking and feeling - or even seeing and hearing - are true? Or will you always worry that you're being manipulated by my powers?
"Now, in most cases, magic users - or their equivalents - are regular people, no better or worse than any other. The idea of setting a man on fire with their power is as horrific a thought to them as it is to someone who would have to gather wood and a match to do the same. But, as it is frequently - and reductively - said, power tends to corrupt. The more power someone has and the further insulated from the negative consequences of their actions, the harder it is to remember whatever ethics or morals that might have guided their behavior beforehand. This is true whether we're talking magic, physical strength, political power, or great wealth.
"With this in mind, our scenario today. There is a pre-industrial city - we'll call it Omelas again, why not? - where the power difference between mages and normal humans is so great that after generations of rule, the magic users have become tyrants. They take what they want whenever they want, and no one without magic can stop them. The lower classes are suffering because the fruits of their labors are claimed by magic elite. Deprivation is common; few people starve, but they are gaunt and stooped from hunger. Winters are cruel, as they attempt to stave off freezing for another day; though at a mage's whim, they may be displaced from their homes and forced to find shelter elsewhere, even in the bitterest weather. To speak rudely to a magic user is grounds for punishment; minor disrespect - like forgetting a ma'am or sir, or sounding displeased to be speaking to them - is usually punished with a blow to the face, more serious infractions might result in a whipping. To steal from a magic user is punishable by maiming, and to harm one can result in an entire family being punished for the crime. Of course, there is no such protections the other way around; to take something you want from a non-magic user is seen as a mage's right - and if sometimes that something is actually a someone, well, who would stop you? The lives of non-magic users are cheap and spend easily; there is not a single home or family that has not lost someone because a mage was feeling frustrated and lashed out with their magic. All but the very youngest children have seen it happen. Basically, everything that happens when one group of people think of another group as less than human, or even particularly expensive livestock. Non-mages are used and abused, with no hope of recourse.
"Then, one day, you are approached by someone, who wants to tell you of this amazing new weapon they have just invented, they're calling it a gun. They say it can replicate the power of a mage - you can kill someone from a distance, and faster even than a blink of an eye. And these guns are so powerful that anyone can use them; young or old, ill or hale, weak or strong. With the right training, even children can use these amazing things! You simply need to point and squeeze and something dies. They're hailing these weapons as the Great Equilizer, with this, they can possibly shift the balance of power away from the corrupt magic users and into the hands of the people. They have created a prototype - and it works! - but they need your assistance to make these on a grand scale. Without your help, it will be impossible.
"You are aware that, yes, with enough guns, the people of this city can rise up and revolt against the magic users. It will be an ugly and brutal fight, and there's no guarantee who will win, but the people will have the ability to fight back in a way they never have before. But you also know that there is no putting the djinn back into the ring if you let this proceed. Instead of an incredible killing power being limited to a small percent of the population the way magic is, it will be available to almost anyone. Killing will become easy, distant. They can easily fall into the hands of children - some people may even give them to children deliberately. Of course, just having a gun doesn't automatically confer skill at aiming or an innate knowledge of gun safety. Friendly fire most certainly isn't, as they are about to find out. And the guns will last beyond the rule of the mages, if the mages are indeed brought down--do you really believe that people will run out of targets when there aren't any more mages to shoot? Of course not, they'll just start aiming at each other.
"So," Liliana asked, as she did every week. "What will you do? What is the most ethical way forward? Do you lend your assistance to create a weapon that can and will make death even easier, even faster, even cheaper? Or do you refuse, and prolong their suffering under corruption and tyranny?"
[This post describes abuses of people at the hands of a privileged elite, as well as guns and the potential repercussions of introducing them to your standard, pre-industrial fantasy population. The post does mention the possibility of giving guns to children, but not in any way that evokes modern gun violence (especially in schools), but to highlight the drawbacks of both sides of the ethical decision. The underlying premise of this post taken from Vox Machina S03E07, showing Anna Ripley's tragic backstory and her subsequent offer to Percy is what gave me the idea for Liliana teaching this class in the first place.]
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Listen to the Lecture
Help Or Refuse?
Re: Help Or Refuse?
It was always fun when the hypothetical ethical dilemmas were things you'd actually lived through.
Re: Help Or Refuse?
Re: Help Or Refuse?
He crossed his arms and looked up at her. "I've seen a version of this one," he said. "Been part of this one. It wasn't pretty."
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"But I don't think I'd encourage the guns. For many reasons, but mostly because a corrupt mageocracy is eventually going to self-implode. Why put that much effort into creating an indiscriminate death, when there's so many other ways to get the leopards to eat each other's faces?"
Re: Help Or Refuse?
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This class was really poking at her Omelas-child survivor trauma, wasn't it?
"As to the weapon..." Illyana grinned in a way that was only mildly unhinged. "I've got it right now," she replied cheerfully. "Do you want to see it?"
"As long as you don't touch it, it's perfectly safe."
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Then there might be more of them remaining in the universe.
Avoiding eye contact wasn't difficult when you only had to turn your head slightly and it was easier not to look directly at anyone.
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Assuming you weren't a stormtrooper with terrible aim, of course.
"--but I would like to think that the people will remember how terrible it was to be under the thumb of the mages and won't commit such atrocities against one another. There will always be people with violent tendencies, and they'll always find a way to cause harm to others. If the guns can help people save themselves and protect themselves, it's a matter of supporting the greater good."
Gold Star Do-Goodering
Once again, Liliana plans to pay minimal attention to any discussion of heroics.
Talk to Liliana
Re: Talk to Liliana - NFB
"Squirrels," he said, pouring.
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And didn't even have to do that much, for some inexplicable, Ignis-shaped reason.
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"So," he added conversationally, "I wasn't always aware I was Force sensitive." Beat. "This isn't going to be a big lore dump, by the way, my therapist just keeps hammering on the importance of transparency. Apparently I have a problem with that or something."
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OOC
(h/t to Fry for sharing)
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(My MIT friends are still mad about this question.)