Ethical Dilemmas, Thursday, (Per 1)

[deathsmajesty]

Rather than teaching in a classroom this session, everyone in class had been instructed to make their way to the creepy mansion in the woods Professor Vess's home, and to follow the path around the house to the back, where a long glass room ran almost the full length of the house. This was where their class would be held from now on; at least until specified otherwise. It was not difficult to find their professor, she was in a wide open area with a number of different seating options arranged in a circle: a couch, several loveseats, a scattering of arm chairs (probably? none of them were murderous?), cushions and blankets, even a few hanging chairs, and a papasan or two. Look, there were sixteen of you, everybody should be able to find somewhere comfortable to sit. There were trays and tray tables, so people could help themselves to the breakfast charcuterie boards, courtesy of Professor Scientia, that were sitting on a low table in the middle of the circle, along with a selection of juices, teas, and (of course) coffee.

"Help yourselves and choose a place to settle," Liliana said. She was sitting on a chaise, though not currently reclining, stirring honey into her tea. She gave everyone a few more minutes to grab what they wanted and find a spot, and once people were squared away, began. "I am Professor Vess, and welcome to Ethical Dilemmas," she said. "I know that the first week is usually devoted to introductions, but we have far too much to discuss to waste an entire class period. Instead, this week I will be outline the structure of the course and explaining how I expect classes to go, along with a little bit of background and context that will make future classes go more smoothly." She took a sip of her tea and then set it aside.

"This class will generally be using the terms 'morals' and 'ethics' interchangeably, but there are differences between them. At its core, morality has to do with one person's beliefs about right and wrong. Morality is deeply personal, grounded in individual beliefs, experiences, and preferences. Since it is broadly subjective, morality is not necessarily determined by the behavior's impact on others, but on how it impacts your sense of self and identity. Ethics, on the other hand, are more practical, focused on maintaining fairness, safety, and accountability in collective settings. It's one community's rules of conduct, and often operates in a formal or professional context. Ethics emphasizes the consequences of behavior on others, organizations, or society," Liliana continued. "For example, in most of our interactions, if I lied to you, it might be considered immoral, but not unethical. If, however, I lied to you while selling you something from my store, then it becomes unethical. In that case, the focus is not on my own integrity, but what the consequences are for you, the customer. Morality looks inwards, ethics look out."

"I truly intend that to be the last time I provide you with simple facts and definitions for you to learn. As I hope was made abundantly clear by the setting, I am approaching this less as a formal class and more as a casual symposium. I am not attempting to teach you ethics, as hilarious as that idea might be. Instead, I will be positing a dilemma every week and then asking you what you would do--and also why you would do it, among other questions. My job isn't to tell you what a bunch of stuffy dead philosophers decided ethics are, but to facilitate discussion on what ethics mean in your daily life, how they've been formed, and what they mean. This is not a class that accepts tautologies; there is no 'this is the right thing to do because it is right' nonsense. You can come up with rules for yourself - this is the right thing to do because I believe X - but expect to be mercilessly questioned on the whys.

"Because of the way this class is - loosely - structured, I'm going to lay some ground rules. First and foremost, answer the scenario as given, not as you'd like it to be. Yes, yes." She waved a hand and rolled her eyes. "You're all impossibly powered and incredibly brilliant and, left to your own devices, you could easily solve the scenario and bring about a happily ever after. Wonderful, I'm very proud of you, and I will make sure there are gold star stickers by the door so you can grab one at the end of class. But solving these scenarios in not what this class is about. It's putting you in a terrible position and seeing how you respond when all of your options are bad. It's up to you to decide which of the given bad options you choose and why. Furthermore, the refusal to choose is also a choice, and you will be expected to explain why you chose not to make a decision.

"Now, our ethics and morals have been shaped by many things, including the societies we've grown up in, the political, social, and ethical structures that have shaped our lives, our general position in society, and our personal experiences. Most of you come from vastly different times and places, and have lived through incredibly different events. I expect there to be an array of answers to the scenarios I'm putting forward; if you all agree, I'm going to assume that you're all in some kind of expressed virtue-off and I'm going to be vastly annoyed. This brings us to the next rules two rules: I expect you to answer honestly, and to think about the answers you give, and rule number three is that you do not get to attack a person for their answers, regardless of how personally repugnant you may find their answers. Argue with their conclusions or their logic all you wish, but you will stop short of personal attacks. Honesty cannot exist where fear abides, and I care much more about someone's honest answers than I do your personal belief you get to sit in judgment."

Not that she wasn't saying there was anyone judgy in this class, but, you know, just in case there were.

"Now, a word about the scenarios. As I said, they are meant to put you in difficult and ugly situations. For some of you, these situations may hit uncomfortably close to home. If you find yourself emotionally compromised by a day's scenario, you're always welcome to leave the discussion, whether it's for a few minutes or for the remainder of the period. Lastly, my office hours are on Fridays, if you would like to discuss topics pertaining to class. Any questions or concerns thus far?"

Comments

Sign In #1

[deathsmajesty]

Judgmentally

Re: Sign In #1

[what_big_teeth]

Eleanor Zarrin

Re: Sign In #1

[even_bigger_teeth]

Luma Zarrin

Listen to the Lecture

[deathsmajesty]

Or you know, look around, eat food, take notes, pass notes, ask questions...

There are a lot of verbs that are appropriate here. Pick yours!

Re: Listen to the Lecture

[even_bigger_teeth]

Now this was more like it! This old and creepy and egregious house felt like home to Luma, comfortable and familiar despite its obvious differences. It was about the atmosphere, the location, the woods hiding it away from the rest of the world like a dark secret. The room where they settled was like a brighter version of her grandmother's overgrown greenhouse, Luma was breathing in all the vibrant scent of plants, and she was eagerly picking at the charcuterie, leaning mostly toward fruits and meats, and, despite herself, despite all the people around that she didn't know, she kept flashing eager, sharp-toothed grins at Eleanor before settling in to really try to listen to the instructor.

A task she would find much more difficult, but she'd put in her best effort.

Re: Listen to the Lecture

[deathtofrendo]

Wait, classes were supposed to have introductions?

That had literally not happened in any of Quinn's classes yet.

(Also, why was Skywalker always around? He was getting quiet side-eye from Quinn.)

Introductions If We Must

[deathsmajesty]

"I am not providing you with a scenario this week, but that doesn't mean I don't have questions for you. Consider it part of your introduction, I suppose. Your name, the role violence plays in your life, either ethically or morally, and when, if ever, you feel it is appropriate to kill another sapient being."

What, was she supposed to be starting with softballs?

Re: Introductions If We Must

[suitably_heroic]

You know, the name question shouldn't be the most complicated one of the bunch, and yet here they were.

After some mental deliberation, Jack settled on, "Hey, I'm Jack Rand," and then segued very quickly into, "I grew up in a military family and I ran away from home to join the army when I was 16 years old, so violence has always just been practical reality to me."

He shrugged.

"If you'd asked me twenty years ago, I'd have said it's appropriate to kill another sapient being if they're the enemy," he said. "Ten years ago, I would've said it's appropriate if they're in your way and they won't move. Nowadays, honestly, I just try to stay away from the decision at all." He gave two thumbs up. "Judgment free zone."

That was not true. He was very good at being judgey.

Re: Introductions If We Must

[deathsmajesty]

Liliana arched an eyebrow at Jack. "I'm so thrilled to see you embracing the spirit of the class," she drawled, though there was an undercurrent of amusement there. "So, why the change in how you feel about killing? Was there a change in your moral or ethical standpoint? Or was there something else that influenced this break? And do you have an idea of what you would do if you found you couldn't stay away from the decision?"

Re: Introductions If We Must

[even_bigger_teeth]

"I'm Luma," the elder Zarrin chimed in, almost eager for this introduction in particular, beaming as she turned slightly toward the younger sitting beside her and leaning back a bit to reach for her hand, "and this is my sister Eleanor."

So apparently she was doing the introductions for both of them. Okay, Luma. Eleanor didn't seem to object, a little too stunned to, and so Luma continued.

"And we were always taught to never kill another sapient being, although one of us is not nearly as good at following that as the other."

Well, now Eleanor was going to object, making a strangled sound and sitting up, but she couldn't exactly argue that she hadn't technically killed anyone in front of a whole class. So she seemed on the edge of an argument, but pulled back.

"Never," she argued instead, "isn't really true. Self-defense is important. Protecting the family. That sort of thing."

Luma's lips pursed slightly and she gave a soft, dismissively sort of mewl. "But anyway," she tossed her hair over her shoulder, "I'm a werewolf. Violence is part of my nature. Eleanor's a big softie who practically faints at the sight of blood--"

"That only happened the one time!" Eleanor insisted....and remembered how it had been immediately followed by someone leaving a dead corpse in her bed the next next morning, and paled slightly.

"--but don't let that fool you," Luma continued. "She can be the most ruthless out of all of us."

Eleanor's pale, slightly green mottled face was a mask of cold fury now, looking at Luma, but she didn't object. Instead, she just turned her attention to Liliana, who knew a little about what Eleanor had done from when she brought Rhys to talk to her about what happened.

"Self-defense," she said again. "And survival."

But it felt like a bitter, sour lie on her tongue, even now.

Re: Introductions If We Must

[deathsmajesty]

"An interesting introduction, Luma," Liliana said, arching a brow. "Now, just to check: did you take my class for reasons beyond discomfitting your sister?"

Re: Introductions If We Must

[thatwaslucky]

"My name is Rey Skywalker," she said, "and I became a Jedi in the middle of a war, which is more of a protector role. Violence is part of it, but I'm not trying to kill anyone unless they're trying to kill me or someone else."

Except for that week or whatever when she was really going through it and blew up a transport by accident but that wasn't typical.

Re: Introductions If We Must

[heroic_jawline]

Steve smiled. "I'm Captain Steve Rogers," he said. "In my home dimension--and across a few others--I'm also known as Captain America. I'm a veteran of World War II and the Chitauri alien invasion. I've also fought against sentient, murderous robots and whatever the island has periodically spat out at us." He gestured to himself. "I volunteered to take an experimental serum that would create more powerful soldiers, so I knew I was signing up for violence from the get-go. I don't want to fight anyone, but I also know that some folks don't respond to anything else to get them to stop hurting other people. I won't commit the first strike, but I'll try to end the fight."

But not by turning someone into pastrami with the shield, John Walker. Not that Steve knew anything about that.

Re: Introductions If We Must

[sith_happened]

"I'm Anakin Skywalker and I enjoy teaching ethics during the school year, so this class will be interesting to be a participant in," he said. "Like Rey, I'm a Jedi, who are--to summarize very generally--a group of warrior monks devoted to protecting peace throughout our galaxy. We use our powers and training for knowledge, defense, and protection. I've also been alive long enough to know that the real world is never as clear cut as the tenets we profess. I have lived through multiple wars and have killed many sapient beings. Some of those acts I regret, some I do not."

Re: Introductions If We Must

[imafuturist]

"I'm Tony Stark," he said with a grin aimed at Liliana. Because of course he did. "I was a weapons manufacturer with a very distant relationship with my products until, well, let's go with an incident brought things into sharp focus. That part of my company was shut down and I've worked or rectifying it since. So my feelings on the matter are... difficult to express objectively."

Re: Introductions If We Must

[deathtofrendo]

"Quinn Maybrook," Quinn said when it was her turn. She'd listened with a blank expression to each of the other introductions, though internally she'd been surprised to hear that basically everyone here had had to deal with violence in some way or another. Enough so that she hadn't entirely figured out what she was going to say until she was on the spot.

"I'm one of a handful of survivors of a series of massacres directed at my hometown of Kettle Springs, Missouri." She'd grown up in Philly, sure, but she'd quickly adopted Kettle Springs as home, even though she'd only actually lived there for, like, a year. "Since violence is always happening to me anyway, I went ahead and embraced it." She flicked a small, empty smile, then went back to her mostly blank expression. "I don't actually think you should kill people if you can help it. But it turns out there are a lot of situations where you can't, like if they're trying to kill you and everyone else around you."

A beat.

"Or if they've poisoned the minds and bodies of an entire community of people. If you kill other people for no good reason, then you deserve to die, too. And -- apparently I'm willing to be the one who makes that happen."

Re: Introductions If We Must

[mustbeawitch]

"I am Miss Lydia Bennet," Lydia said, "and I am not at all fond of violence and try to avoid it as much as possible, although it is not always possible with my type of magic. But I do so despise blood. While I would prefer not to kill anyone at all, I suppose it would be appropriate to kill someone in defense of one's self, or in defense of another."

Re: Introductions If We Must

[moreofaponchoguy]

Somewhere, there was a song going about Liliana's class bringing all the Jedi to the yard.

"I'm Cal Kestis, and I'm also a Jedi. Violence plays more of a role in my life than I'd like it to," he admitted. "In an ideal world, I wouldn't have to defend myself and the people I care about. But there are also some acts that I don't regret."

Re: Introductions If We Must

[gospel_of_oblivion]

"Illyana Rasputin," Yana drawled, clearly amused by all of this. "I came of age in a Hell realm where we cut each other for fun, being raised by a demon who was fond of blood magic, so violence is often a default for me. That does not mean I like the fact it is an instinctual default, and I am aware how uncomfortable my tendencies can make other people."

She leaned back on her pillows. "I, personally, have no moral or ethical compunction against killing sapient beings in self-defense, or in the defense of others. While killing someone is rarely my goal, people make choices, and then I have to make choices, and I have learned that I can live with my choices, even my terrible choices, while they are dead."

"...But I am in anger management therapy once a week," and therapy for her PTSD separately, "--so my worst impulses don't win out over a clear mind."

Re: Introductions If We Must

[stykera]

"I'm Stark," Stark said. "Death is what I'm meant for, helping souls transition to the Other Side, and violence is a part of that, often. And...sometimes killing is necessary. To survive or protect someone else who needs it. I don't like doing it. I avoid it when I can. But sometimes it has to happen. And sometimes...sometimes it may not be necessary but it is justified. And sometimes killing may be a mercy. Death can be the kinder choice, if someone will only suffer otherwise and they are ready to go."

Re: Introductions If We Must

[unusual_sith]

"Lana Beniko," she introduced herself with a nod. "I grew up at war and have rarely ever not been at war. Violence is a useful tool that some people rely on too heavily and others discount unwarranted. And I feel it's appropriate to kill another being when not doing so is worse."

She shrugged. "It's very subjective. But I have no compunctions about killing someone who's threatening those I care about, or seeking to cause galactic problems. I also know there are often better solutions."

Re: Introductions If We Must

[intheeyeofthebeholding]

"Jonathan Sims. Jon." He grimaced. "I...would prefer to avoid violence as often as possible, but that hasn't often gone very well for me." As his insane amount of scars probably showed.

"I think...I think killing someone if they're going to kill you or someone else you're protecting is...it's fine. Or if...um. Well, if they're hurting a lot of people and there's no other way to stop them."

Re: Introductions If We Must

[sharp_man]

"Doctor Hannibal Lecter." He smiled and gave Liliana a little bow. "I have been both the recipient and the perpetrator of violence in my time. And I believe the appropriateness of killing another sapient being is something that can only be determined in the moment, not as a set of hard and fast rules."

He was trying to be honest, Liliana, but at some point he was going to have to take the fifth.

Talk to Liliana

[deathsmajesty]

It's her house, she's not going anywhere.

OOC

[deathsmajesty]

On the off-chance anyone is confused where Liliana stands on the above questions: