fandomhigh | Practical Philosophy, Tuesday

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Practical Philosophy, Tuesday

"We've been blessed with relative peace of late," Ender said, his legs folded under him, the remains of a sandwich beside him. "Still, this is Fandom. I'm sure most of you will have woken up at some point or another looking like someone else, or feeling like someone else. It can be a bewildering experience. Or freeing."

He reached for his water. "The great philosophers spent a lot of time talking about matters of personal identity," he said. "Some philosophers denote identity simply as bodily existence: you are who you are as long as you are your physical self. Of course, that brings issues of its own with it, whether it be because of the natural process of aging, or because the island turned you into another sex. Are you still yourself, when your genitals are different? I would say yes, but it's a frequent topic of debate."

He set the bottle back down. "The second theory is that identity is a product of mental substance; that one's mind is separate from one's body, and that it is where our personhood lives. So if we wake up one morning forgetting who we are, then whatever inhabits our body is not us. Whatever that body did was not our action."

He eyed each student in turn. "Of course, John Locke went a step further and defined mental substance as being one's consciousness, in which case the answer is rather more clear-cut, I feel. 'If Socrates and the present mayor of Queenborough agree, they are the same person: if the same Socrates waking and sleeping do not partake of the same consciousness, Socrates waking and sleeping is not the same person.'"

"But there are many other theories. One presupposes that one's self is really one's intuition: after all, when your mind is gone, and someone then proceeds to torture you, you'll still feel fear and apprehension, because you can intuit that torture isn't something you want happening to you. Other theories suppose that consistency is key, that every part of you that I've just mentioned must remain in a certain alignment for you to be you. And so on, and so forth."

He smiled, tapping his finger against the bottle. "But that's enough for Philosophy 101," he said. "Have any of you ever experienced waking up in another body? Or with another mind? Did you remember what you did? Did it mean anything to you, or could you put some distance between it and yourself?"

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As yourself.

Llewellyn Watts

Liliana Vess

Ben Skywalker

Ghanima Atreides

Anakin Skywalker

Lana Beniko

Or have some tea.

As someone who was romantically involved with a person who shared his body with someone else, Watts definitely had his thoughts on identity and personhood. Not that he was going to delve into any of that here.

"It still felt like my body," Watts offered. "The one time I woke up with- female anatomy. I won't say I didn't feel out of sorts- I was shorter, for one, and slighter." And he'd briefly been convinced that such a life would be simpler, given his own sexual preferences, but no need to go in to that.

"Did you come to terms with it?" Ender asked. "Or did the out-of-sorts linger?"

"I did, eventually," Watts said. "It was- not unpleasant? Especially as I knew it was temporary."

Ender huffed a little in amusement, at that description. "Did you learn anything from the experience? Or was it just a not-unpleasant blip in your week?"

"It was certainly a learning experience," Watts nodded, tone indicating he did not particularly feel like elaborating overmuch.

Ender huffed, amused. "Fair enough," he said. "Feel free to keep your secrets."

About identity, and what it means.

Or anything else on your mind.

"So far, I have been a pony, a cat, and a child," Liliana said. "The pony, I was fully myself, the cat I was...not myself consciously, though I take it there were behavior similarities, and as a child..." Her lips thinned unconsciously. "I was, indeed, the child I remember being."

"And how was the experience of being a pony?" Ender asked.

He made note of that expression on her face.

"The lack of hands was quite frustrating," Liliana said. "The magic was different than what I was used to, but enough that it wasn't infuriating."

"Sounds like it might have actually been a learning experience," Ender noted.

"Indeed," Liliana said. "For example, how much I enjoy having my hands."

"And the magic?" Ender prompted.

"Well, it wasn't necromancy," Liliana drawled. "It required no mana, either. It just...was? I suppose the closest I could guess would be telekinesis. But somethings were just so clumsy. It - or perhaps I - lacked the fine control necessary for tasks like 'put in a DVD' to occur with ease."

Again, a slight press of her lips at the idea of personally lacking fine control.

"I woke-up once looking like my twin brother, that was confusing for everyone involved," Ghanima laughed. "--But my, ah, my identity is constantly in motion, and not just because of the various roles and masks I wear."

"I was awakened to full, adult consciousness, with all the genetic memories of my ancestors, at my conception. Even now, there is an eternal clamor in my mind, and each and every one of them has opinions on everything. I must always remain aware of what thoughts are mine, which are theirs, and make sure none of the horde begin to gain too much influence." She gave a wry smile. "It means that I am always very aware of my sense of Self, in every moment."

"Would you be comfortable speaking more as to how?" Ender asked. "You must have had to learn to create and maintain that identity at an early age."

"From the moment we were aware, Leto and I had always dared to search within, to seek out the old languages and the old knowledge...how to fly shuttles without being taught, languages long-dead, histories unsung. In a way, we were already amalgams of those lives within us. We didn't resist; we rode with them. They did not feel the need to push for dominance yet, thinking we would come to them more fully in time. It gave us space to form a Self, since they were not pushing in. We formed our own opinions, our own thoughts on the histories they experienced, spoke the languages with our own accents, and developed our own flying styles. They thought they could play the long game, and luckily for us, that gamble failed."

"However, when we were very young, we played what we called the 'parent game,'" Ghanima said, her smile turning sad. "We would slip into the identities of our parents, in an effort to feel closer to them or to seek council, we would give life to them again, in a way we never allowed the others to do."

"It was dangerous. Every time we did it, we ran the risk of becoming Abominations, that one day we would not be able to retake control of the body, and they would be the ascendant egos. What pulled us back each time was knowing that fate was possible -- mohw’pwium d’mi hish pash moh’m ka -- 'the capture of my soul is the capture of a thousand souls.' We had seen it take our aunt, we did not want to become what she had become."

"I almost failed once. My mother did not wish to withdraw." She folded her normally expressive hands into her lap. "It took hours for me to regain control, but by the end, she was horrified by what she had almost done, how temptation had almost taken her -- and me. But the end result was that I possessed a gate through which I can peer without fear, with her standing guard. And none of the other tau awarenesses can get past her to take full control without both our consent."

"They will make their opinions known, of course, when something happens that captures their attention. It is possible you have seen one of them looking out from my eyes on occasion, when I need their input, but it is rare."

"However, If I try to use the Atreides Gift and see the future, I open that gate and walk through it into the multitude. That is why I have only done it once in my many years at Fandom, and even then, I only made it back because of the care of a friend." Her wry smile returned. "Which is why, children, you should not do large amounts of prescient drugs."

Did she absolutely have a dose of said drugs in her tea thermos right now large enough to put a normal human into shock? Yes. But nowhere near what she'd need for a Spice Trance.

Edited 2024-06-12 06:49 (UTC)

"It sounds," Ender said, after a ~~day-~~long pause, "As if the experience did, ultimately, give you a deeper connection to your mother. Just in a way less precarious than your initial experiments."

"It's been a very long time," Ben said with a smile.

Ender chuckled. "Do you remember the last time we were struck by anything?"

Ben shook his head. "I do remember that waking up older one time shifted the entirety of my relationship with you. Sometimes it's good to have our parameters shaken."

Ender let out a wry little noise. "True," he said. "Although I just realized we can't be much younger now than we were then."

"Well, I definitely didn't need to be reminded of that, kreetle," Ben teased.

"I absolutely believe a being's identity is in their mind, or call it their soul, but not necessarily their body," Lana said. "When my body has changed because of the island, I have still been me. And there are those whose identities persist beyond the death of their bodies."

Ender won't stay long after class, but he's here.

Three more days until my vacation, thank god.

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Practical Philosophy, Tuesday

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