Atton Rand & miscellaneous names (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
suitably_heroic) wrote in ![[community profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/community.png)
fandomhigh2023-09-26 07:10 am
suitably_heroic) wrote in fandomhigh2023-09-26 07:10 am
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Philosophies of Good and Evil, Tuesday
“If you Google the word ‘kindness’, the evil-multinationals-that-be tell us it means ‘the quality of being friendly, generous, and considerate.’” Atton was actually standing up today, for once, though the fact that his boots touched the ground didn’t mean his leather-jacket-clad shoulder wasn’t held up primarily by the wall otherwise. “At the start of the class, at least one of you told me that that ‘quality of being friendly, generous, and considerate’ was the definition of good. And I get it. It sounds nice. Definitely looks great on a t-shirt, too. Prime Hallmark World material.”
He gave a wave in Stark’s general directionif he was there. “Problem is,” he said, “In reality, where most of us live, some of those words can actually be in direct opposition to each other, depending on context. Just to give a real simple one to ease you into it: saying ‘hi’ to someone might be friendly, but if that person is a stranger wearing headphones or reading a book, you can’t exactly call it considerate. Because they probably don’t want to hear from you."
"And it's all too easy to weaponize generosity and friendliness," Lana pointed out. "Being overly generous or excessively friendly can make people uncomfortable. Can make them feel as if they owe you, or as if you're pushing yourself at them. Presuming you don't want to do that, that's not exactly a positive."
“It might even wind up being unintentionally manipulative, forcing people into situations where they feel obligated to do things for you that they might not have done, had you not caught them with kindness," Atton agreed.
"Or take the old adage about teaching a guy to fish. If he’s starving, teaching him how to fish won’t cut it. If he’s all right but can’t feed his family, giving him one single flounder isn’t going to do much of anything besides prolong the time it takes for him to get off his ass and learn how to do it for himself.” Cough. Not that anyone here had a name vaguely resembling that of an author with far-reaching issues with charity, or anything.
He shrugged. “Or let’s take this example further. Maybe his long-suffering spouse at home is drowning in childcare and desperately needs him to get a fishing gig so he can feed them long-term, but he doesn’t see the point in doing that when kind people keep handing him fish just often enough to keep them from starving completely. And oh, the fishing company is enabling this behavior from tourists, because renting fishing gear to tourists is more profitable than giving the poor guy a job and selling the fish he catches for them.”
"Not to mention," Lana added, "what if he's allergic to fish? What if fish are sacred to him, and killing them is an abomination? What seems perfectly generous to you might be toxic to someone else, and you can't always know when that might be."
“Does that mean we should throw ‘kindness’ out the window?” Atton posited. He pushed away from the wall. “Maybe that’s taking it a few steps too far. There’s a place for that kind of thing, if you want to do right by people. But maybe we have to broaden our understanding what kindness is. And when it’s appropriate.”
He gave a wave in Stark’s general direction
"And it's all too easy to weaponize generosity and friendliness," Lana pointed out. "Being overly generous or excessively friendly can make people uncomfortable. Can make them feel as if they owe you, or as if you're pushing yourself at them. Presuming you don't want to do that, that's not exactly a positive."
“It might even wind up being unintentionally manipulative, forcing people into situations where they feel obligated to do things for you that they might not have done, had you not caught them with kindness," Atton agreed.
"Or take the old adage about teaching a guy to fish. If he’s starving, teaching him how to fish won’t cut it. If he’s all right but can’t feed his family, giving him one single flounder isn’t going to do much of anything besides prolong the time it takes for him to get off his ass and learn how to do it for himself.” Cough. Not that anyone here had a name vaguely resembling that of an author with far-reaching issues with charity, or anything.
He shrugged. “Or let’s take this example further. Maybe his long-suffering spouse at home is drowning in childcare and desperately needs him to get a fishing gig so he can feed them long-term, but he doesn’t see the point in doing that when kind people keep handing him fish just often enough to keep them from starving completely. And oh, the fishing company is enabling this behavior from tourists, because renting fishing gear to tourists is more profitable than giving the poor guy a job and selling the fish he catches for them.”
"Not to mention," Lana added, "what if he's allergic to fish? What if fish are sacred to him, and killing them is an abomination? What seems perfectly generous to you might be toxic to someone else, and you can't always know when that might be."
“Does that mean we should throw ‘kindness’ out the window?” Atton posited. He pushed away from the wall. “Maybe that’s taking it a few steps too far. There’s a place for that kind of thing, if you want to do right by people. But maybe we have to broaden our understanding what kindness is. And when it’s appropriate.”