Ethics, Friday, September 11, 2020

[sith_happened]

"Good morning, everyone," Anakin said, sweeping into the classroom. "Today we're going to re-discuss the ethical quandary offered up by our guest speakers from this week's assembly."

Since some of the reactions to it had been...clarifying.

"The Trolley Problem at its most simplified form goes like this: there is a runaway trolley barreling down the railway tracks. Ahead, on the tracks, there are five people tied up and unable to move. The trolley is headed straight for them. You are standing some distance off in the train yard, next to a lever. If you pull this lever, the trolley will switch to a different set of tracks. However, you notice that there is one person on the side track. You have two options: Do nothing and allow the trolley to kill the five people on the main track or pull the lever, diverting the trolley onto the side track where it will kill one person. Which is the more ethical option? Or, more simply: What is the right thing to do?"

Anakin smiled. "Now our guests were unaware of many of the abilities we on the island have to manipulate the scenario in order to save all the lives involved."

Or smush everything, but...Mae.

"So that meant at the assembly we got to wriggle out of the actual moral question posed by this scenario: by being a witness to what is happening, do you have a moral obligation to intervene, and if so, does that mean pulling the lever to divert the trolley into only killing one person? Does pulling the lever make you morally culpable for that one death, where doing nothing just makes you a horrible witness to an accident?"

He shrugged. "It's an interesting discussion, so let's have it. Without the teddy bear explosions."

Comments

Answer the questions!

[sith_happened]

Is there a moral obligation to intervene when you see something terrible happening, and if you do, does that make the outcome your fault?

Re: Answer the questions!

[mother_forker]

"Well clearly you're forked if you do something or forked if you don't," Eleanor said with a weary sigh. "Hey do we get to do the trolley thing with real people in that weird Danger Shoppie thing?"

Eleanor wondered if body parts flew about like the teddy bears did.

Re: Answer the questions!

[sith_happened]

"We are not running over people," Anakin said flatly.

Re: Answer the questions!

[mother_forker]

This is why no one liked moral philosophy professors ethics teachers, Anakin.

"Fine," Eleanor said rolling her eyes. "But the same thing holds true. We're running over complete strangers so who the fork knows what we're doing wrong. The five idiots in the street could be really cool and the one on the side could be another Dahmer. Or there could be five Dahmers and one Ghandi. We're really forked no matter what. Might as well just run over the one and then be done with it."

Re: Answer the questions!

[x_discospider_x]

Troy had already done an awful lot of thinking and decision making earlier in his economics class, which left him feeling like this amount of thinking and decision making should be pretty much illegal, but, brow furrowed, maybe trying to hear a little what other people were saying, he did try.

"Why's it gotta fall on us to have to be the potential bad guys here?" he finally managed, lifting his hand as it to emphasize the conundrum. "We're not the ones putting people on trolley tracks, I think we should really be looking towards the person who is and get them to, you know, not?"

Re: Answer the questions!

[sith_happened]

"A good point," Anakin said. "So are you going to ignore the lever in an attempt to find the person tying people to the track? What if that ends up with you also being tied to the track?"

Re: Answer the questions!

[x_discospider_x]

"Well, obviously, I'm pulling the lever," Troy said, so emphatic there was even a little lever-pulling gesture, "celebrate with all the people whose lives I just saved, and then go find out who's tying all these people to trolley tracks in the first place."

Re: Answer the questions!

[complexfemale]

"You definitely have some responsibility if you can stop something from happening but choose not to," Maeve said. "Whether you're cool with that is up to you, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't do it."

And then she added, "Unless they're assholes who're honestly getting what they deserve."

Re: Answer the questions!

[sith_happened]

"So if this is some kind of city-enforced punishment for jaywalking, you're okay with it?" Anakin asked.

Re: Answer the questions!

[complexfemale]

"No," she said, frowning. "Who deserves punishment for jaywalking? If that's what the city does, I'm moving."

Re: Answer the questions!

[dauntlessdragoon]

Honestly, Freya didn't even see how this was a conundrum to begin with.

"Obviously, there's an obligation to do whatever you can to prevent as much damage as possible," she proposed. "If one has the choice to do something and chooses not to, then that person is also choosing the consequences of their inaction just as completely as if they would their actions."

Re: Answer the questions!

[sith_happened]

"So just by witnessing this situation, you're morally responsible for what happens to these people?" Anakin asked.

Re: Answer the questions!

[dauntlessdragoon]

"Perhaps not everyone, no," Freya allowed. "Those who might not be able for whatever reason could be an exception, but myself, personally, and anyone capable, I feel, would be obligated, yes. It is my duty as a dragon knight to protect others, and to fail to do that would be a dereliction of my duties."

Re: Answer the questions!

[grayskollar]

"Well, if you you know something wrong is happening and you're able to do something about it, you should." Who wasn't touching that fault question with a ten-foot-pole? That would be Adora.

Re: Answer the questions!

[sith_happened]

"Do you then assume responsibility for what happens when you do something about it?" Anakin asked.

Re: Answer the questions!

[grayskollar]

Adora wasn't aware that she was hunching in on herself to present a smaller target. "I guess...yeah."

Re: Answer the questions!

[toottootmagicflute]

"If you are capable of intervening and choose not to, then you're as responsible for what happens as the man who pulls - or doesn't pull - the lever," Wei Wuxian said firmly. He considered his options. "I'd throw myself on the track, if I were close enough. If I couldn't make it in time, I'd raise the victims as fierce corpses and send them to get revenge on those that killed them." He rested his hand on his flute without thinking about it.

Re: Answer the questions!

[sith_happened]

Anakin blinked. "So you'd raise an army of the undead?" he checked. "How would that help things?"

Re: Answer the questions!

[toottootmagicflute]

"I wouldn't consider just one or five people to be an army," Wei Wuxian said. "But look, if you have people die in this way, they're going to be full of resentful energy and become fierce ghosts anyway. Why not have their energy directed at the people who caused their deaths?" He got ready to dodge in case Master Skywalker was the sort of teacher to throw things, like Grandmaster Lan. "This was clearly an intentional setup and these people have a right to revenge."

Re: Answer the questions!

[thebeastofhouston]

"I think there's definitely an obligation to intervene to the best of your ability," Arabella said slowly, "but I don't think that makes the outcome your fault. Like, with the trolley problem, if you really can only pull the lever so one person dies instead of five, then obviously you're gonna feel bad about someone dying and your actions being involved--" or most people would, "but like Troy said, the fault is with whoever's tying people to the trolley tracks, and we need to find and stop that person."

Re: Answer the questions!

[sith_happened]

"Do we personally need to find them or do we need to call some kind of authority who handles, say, crime?" Anakin asked.

Re: Answer the questions!

[gospel_of_oblivion]

"Wei's right," Illyana agreed, jerking her head in the direction of the other student. "...to an extent. I wouldn't throw myself on the tracks, that's not the most effective thing I could do to stop a train. It'd just run over one person as easy as five without slowing down. But I do have ways to divert it away from everyone, or conjure assistance to stop it."

"And if I'm not successful, or can't stop it in time, I'm absolutely making sure those souls get their answers, because this was a fucking set-up."

And what was the good of technically being a queen of demons if you didn't occasionally toss a few assholes into Limbo for your subjects to torment? Just because she was trying to Be Good didn't mean that demonically-influenced justice was out of the picture.

Re: Answer the questions!

[sith_happened]

Anakin nodded. "Setting aside the superpowers and how those affect the end of the scenario," he said, "let's start with the premise: you feel an obligation to act because you're witnessing the event?"

Re: Answer the questions!

[mylandmyrules]

"Yes, I think if you see something you need to try to help, but the fault lies with the person who tied the people to the tracks," Nell said.

Who was also wondering if she could grow vines quickly enough and strong enough to stop a trolley. Or maybe roots big enough to disrupt the tracks.

"And that person needs to be caught and stopped."

Re: Answer the questions!

[sith_happened]

"But does that have to become your responsibility?" Anakin asked.