fandomhigh | Lies Your Other Teachers Told You, January 12, 2018

Lies Your Other Teachers Told You, January 12, 2018

There were two teachers at the head of the class today and one of them looked like he was ready for a fight. The other mostly looked like he needed more coffee.

No points for guessing which was which.

"Welcome back," Tony said. "Everyone say hello to your other teacher, Captain Rogers."

Steve gave a quick wave. "Hello. It's nice to see some familiar faces. Today we're going to talk about the dangers of talking around actual, definable problems with historical figures, both past and present. Heroification makes people over into heroes. Through this process, people turn flawed, flesh-and-blood individuals into pious, perfect creatures without conflicts, pain, credibility, or human interest." He smiled. "I read that last part in a book, but it's true."

Tony smiled and looked like he was trying not to laugh. "While they were crucial to the founding of this country, many of the Founders were also slave owners or soldiers who helped demolish the native populations that were here long before our country was even an idea. But today we hold them up to the gold standard of what we think the country should be."

"Washington, Jefferson, Madison all owned slaves," Steve said, nodding. "Christopher Columbus wasn't here to prove the world was round. Andrew Jackson was a violent racist. Does it affect how we view their contributions to world history? Yes, because it makes them people, not cartoons."

"Washington, the very first president of the country and famed military general for the revolution, didn't even think the constitution would last more than a few decades," Tony added. So, take jerkwads who used it to argue for bullshit. "Though, that may be due to the fact that in no way was the country a unified state, more a loose confederact of different states who barely tolerated each other."

But details, details.

"Sometimes they still barely tolerate each other," Steve muttered. "Okay. The topic discussion today: why is it so dangerous to turn these very real people into untouchable icons?"

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Why is it a bad idea to build up real people into unattainable icons of themselves? The two superheroes teaching the class are very interested.

"Well, for one thing, pretending racism wasn't a thing in the past makes it even harder for white people to acknowledge that racism is a thing now."

"That is a good point," Tony replied. "The sheer level of hypocrisy behind using the 'we hold these truths to be self evident' line while a good number of the delegates were slaveowners."

"But Jefferson couldn't have been a racist," Tip said, deeply sarcastically. "One of his best lovers was a black woman."

Tony snorted at her tone and nodded. "Ignoring the fact that consent wasn't possible for whatever the relationship was or wasn't in reality."

"Yeeeeeeeah," Tip said. "That's another one a lot of guys still haven't figured out."

"That is very and sadly true," Tony replied with a sigh. "Many people like to think that our culture is the beacon of morality when it's just this shiny veneer over rot."

"Or they think that it was great back then, but that people like me having personal freedoms is what's making it rot."

Tony wrinkled his nose at that. "Yeah, those people can shove it."

Maybe not the best teacher answer, though.

"Do you think we whitewash the past to absolve ourselves of it?"

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Because sometimes when a future version of your friend drags you into said future you get yelled at by Future Captain America!

"Um," said Bobby, "cause it makes it easier to excuse the bad stuff they did or said with 'they were from a different time' or whatever."

"Another good point," Tony said, giving the poor kid a smile. "Do you think we should disregard them or just take their impact with a grain of salt?"

"Definitely that second one," Bobby said. "Maybe sometimes with a whole truckload of salt, though."

Edited 2018-01-12 18:13 (UTC)

That made Tony laugh at least. "Any of them in particular?"

"More than the others?" Bobby asked. "... I don't know," he admitted. "I mean, you wanna talk about glossing over that kinda stuff, we were really good at that in the time I was originally from." You know, back when the Civil Rights Movement was still kind of. New. And Bobby himself had been more involved in the Mutant Rights side of things, anyway. The concept of 'intersectionality' was something he was just starting to learn about, after all.

"What year is it? I think you're a little ahead of St--Captain Rogers there."

Oh, the 40's. Magical time.

"When we left, it was 1964," Bobby informed him.

... and somehow magically his future (present?) counterpart wasn't a senior citizen. Comic books!

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"Well, I can imagine that it might make it hard for the people to change their minds about things," Khadgar said. "If people build someone up because of a belief they agree with, and then the person changes their belief... that could get ugly."

"Do think it could ever be a good thing to do?" Tony asked.

"Because it's impossilbe to learn from the mistakes of the past if you don't even know they were made," Norman replied, and then paused for a moment, considered, and added, "and because shutting up about what they did and wiping it under the rug that way isn't any different from excusing it, really. These people are our heroes, and we idolize them so much that we can't possibly hold them accountable for the things they did? Then why should anyone be held accountable for the same? Washington did it, so it's fine."

Steve nodded. "And when it seems too easy and pat to fix it in the history books it becomes far too easy to become complacent about how easy it would be to fix again if it ever came back around again."

So much side-eye at the current White House. SO MUCH. "How do you learn how to productively have difficult conversations if you learn through your classes to avoid them instead?"

"It would be nice if I could say that just living life took care of that part," Norman replied wryly. "But not many people actually let little things like 'the way things really are' get in the way of their fantasy world where nothing is horrible ever, and where it certainly isn't their fault."

Bitter teen, here. As if this school wasn't already full of those, right?

"When instead everyone should learn to apologize sincerely," Steve said. "None of this 'sorry if you were offended' nonsense, and just tell things straight. It's a lot easier in the long run--much less to keep track of when you're always telling the truth."

"Yeah," Norman replied, and then frowned a little. "But it's about more than just apologizing. It's about reconciling, too. About making amends for the horrible things that were done, for making it right again, as best as it possibly can be. And the damage from some things... that won't ever really go away. That doesn't mean you don't try."

Steve nodded. "Yes. Face it squarely and acknowledge that wrongs were done. George Washington did many great things, but he was also a slaveholder. We can't look away from that just because it doesn't fit the mythology we'd like. We have to examine what that means for our country, and also why we've insisted on ignoring plain facts for so long."

"Because being held accountable feels bad," Norman replied. "Because it's easier to live life at the cost of somebody else's suffering, to feel righteous even when the wrong choices have been made. Because if we have to face the ghosts our history left us, that doesn't mean we're as perfect as we wish we were. As we've always been told we are. And... it's really hard to let go of perfection once you think you've got it. Especially if you don't stop to look at what it cost to get you there in the first place."

It was possible that the ghosts Norman was talking about weren't entirely metaphorical. It was absolutely certain that the situation he was talking about, he was coming at with some experience.