Ethics, Tuesday

[saddeserthermit]

There weren't two men in robes greeting the class today, but rather one man in a robe, a man in a tunic and jacket, and a very pissed off perched in the latter's hands. The first was looking at the latter two with rather clear perturbation in his expression.

"I'm sorry, but... why are you here?" Obi-Wan asked.

Atton rolled his eyes. "Because your co-teacher's a cat," he said. "And when I was gone, he covered my class, so now I'm covering his."

"There's really no need," Obi-Wan said, carefully disguising his irritation as politeness. "I can handle the class myself, I can assure you."

"Sure, but two teachers is better than one," Atton retorted.

The cat mewed angrily.

"See?" Atton said triumphantly. "Skywalker agrees with me." That was actually... pretty debatable. Skywalker-the-cat, if that cat truly was Anakin and Atton hadn't just picked one up off the street, didn't seem pleased by anything. "Anyway, hey, Ethics class. I'm Atton Rand, I'm sort of affiliated with the same Order these two idiots are, and today I'm here to talk to you about powers."

Because if Anakin could inflict pain on his students, then Atton was going to inflict his own particular ethical hangup on the class. Seemed only fair.

"Actually," Obi-Wan said, "On the schedule today was the princess and the--"

"Tiger. I know, he pulls that one every semester, it's boring. Ow." The cat went tumbling to the floor. Atton glared at it. "...so, some of you might be gifted with powers. Be it of the 'throwing around fire' variety or the 'queen of a medium-sized kingdom' variety, you might have some advantage over everyone else that was thrown your way by birth or accident. Congratulations or condolences, whichever you think is more suitable." He clapped his hands. "And then, of course, there's those of you who don't. You're normal people, just trying to get by, or maybe trying to excel in spite of your limitations."

Obi-Wan shot him a mild look. "Would you mind explaining where we are going with this particular line of discussion...?"

"What are your responsibilities when you have power? What can you expect from those who wield that power, if you don't have any of your own?" Atton shrugged at Obi-Wan. "That's where I'm going. Can I keep talking?"

The loud sigh Obi-Wan heaved was truly epic. "I believe what Master Rand is speaking of, is the ethics of intervention, of responsibility," he said. "We are both members of an Order of such powered individuals, united in our efforts to make the galaxy a safer place. But our intervention has also always come with a cost. When Jedi step into the field, a conflict can easily escalate. Sometimes the effects of warfare and death can twist us, turn us against the very people we chose to care for. Or it can compel the other side to act more brutally, in order to entrap and kill us."

"'Course, that's an excuse that doesn't exactly keep people warm at night when they have a horde of angry Mandalorians looking to turn them into slaves or corpses," Atton said brightly. "In my time, the Jedi Order held off from intervening in a war for years. It nearly ruined the Republic and cost millions of people their lives, but the Jedi believed that their ideal of pacifism was more important than intervening."

"And then some did intervene," Obi-Wan said mildly, "And turned on the Republic shortly afterward, costing yet more lives. If I recall correctly."

"But that's just one specific example," Atton said. "One where the powered individuals in question had already declared their dedication to some grandiose ideal like 'helping the people' before reneging on the whole deal."

He turned back to the class. "But, y'know, these things don't always run so big," he said. "Maybe you're just some kid who can make fireworks with their brain. Do you think that gives you some responsibility to act when the kid next door's in trouble? Maybe there's a chance you'll hurt yourself if you do. Maybe there's a chance you'll hurt them. Maybe you'll hurt the bad guy, though in that case, I wouldn't have much trouble with the whole situation."

"Intervention is an option that must be carefully weighed," Obi-Wan said. "Sometimes the decision to stride into battle, be it physical or diplomatic, is enough to set any number of consequences in motion. Consequences that may be far more complicated than simply hurting a single individual."

Atton shrugged. "But not doing anything is always a choice, too," he said. "One that might have even worse consequences. Who knows? You ask me, it's usually better to at least try, even if it blows up in your face. As a friend--" ...a hallucinated and creepy terrible person he'd never call a friend in any other circumstances... "--once said to me, apathy is death."

He rubbed the back of his neck. "Okay, let me make this easier," he said. "You meet a beggar on the street. You know he's not the toughest guy on that street - there's a bunch more walking around. But he's hungry, and he asks you for money. If you give it to the guy, he might be able to buy some food, but those tough guys down the street could easily beat him up, too. Besides, you don't know what he'll spend it on. Do you give him the money, or not?"

Comments

Sign In!

[saddeserthermit]

Responsibly.

Re: Sign In!

[notaweenie.livejournal.com]

Barry Ween

Re: Sign In!

[gavegoodface]

Garik Loran

Listen to the Lecture

[saddeserthermit]

Or side-eye that angry, angry cat.

Discussion #1

[saddeserthermit]

"More generally: What are your responsibilities when you have power? What can you expect from those who wield that power, if you don't have any of your own?"

Re: Discussion #1

[notaweenie.livejournal.com]

"Just be fucking responsible and don't shit on anyone with your abilities," Barry said with a shrug. "Help out where you can too."

Re: Discussion #1

[saddeserthermit]

"And what if helping has consequences you cannot oversee?" Obi-Wan said. "What if it makes matters worse, rather than better?"

Re: Discussion #1

[thegreywaren.livejournal.com]

"Try not to mess everything up and send your country, state, group, whatever into civil war." Whether that be physically or metaphorically.

Re: Discussion #1

[saddeserthermit]

"Well," Obi-Wan said, "When you put it like that..."

Re: Discussion #1

[not_a_moonie]

Alana snorted. "In a perfect world they'd try to use their power to protect everybody weaker than them," she said. "But I've never seen that so I don't know how I could expect it. I guess mainly your responsibility is not screwing over everybody with less power than you."

Re: Discussion #1

[saddeserthermit]

"That's a fairly broad category," Obi-Wan pointed out. "Is that an active responsibility, or a passive one? Do you simply not tread on people weaker than you, or does it involve some level of action, even if it isn't protecting everyone?"

Re: Discussion #1

[spin_kick_snap]

"It depends on the kind of power you have and how you get it," Kathy said, turning the question over in her mind. "Your own limits, too, I suppose. Political power isn't the same as having a superpower and not all superpowers are created equal, either."

There were her powers, being bouncy and fast, and then there was someone like Gorgon or the Mighty Dragon. They outclassed her by a lot.

"I think everyone has the responsibility to try to make the world a better place, but they don't have to be a slave to it. Like, over break, I met a superhero named Regenerator who could heal people. He spends his nights fighting crime. Now, someone could argue that maybe he'd be better off parked in a hospital, healing the sick and the injured, but that's not really their place to say. He's using his powers to help people the way he thinks is best and that's what's important. But then, when you have something like political power, that's different. That's power over people's lives and livelihoods and, in some ways, they're giving you that power. So you have to be mindful of what they want and how you can best help them because that kind of power is transactional."

Re: Discussion #1

[saddeserthermit]

"It is not their place to say," Obi-Wan agreed. "Though one does have a right to wonder how effective he is in this role as opposed to another."

Discussion #2

[saddeserthermit]

"You meet a beggar on the street. You know he's not the toughest guy on that street - there's a bunch more walking around. But he's hungry, and he asks you for money. If you give it to the guy, he might be able to buy some food, but those tough guys down the street could easily beat him up, too. Besides, you don't know what he'll spend it on. Do you give him the money, or not?"

Re: Discussion #2

[notaweenie.livejournal.com]

"Not," Barry said immediately. "Buy the guy a fucking sandwich and a bag of chips. Done."

Re: Discussion #2

[suitably_heroic]

"You gonna sit with him the entire time and make sure he eats it?" Atton said.

Re: Discussion #2

[thegreywaren.livejournal.com]

"No," he said without hesitation. "I don't give my money to people I don't know."

Re: Discussion #2

[not_a_moonie]

"If I have it to spare and he's not obviously wasted or anything, sure," Alana shrugged. "Probably he has a plan for getting around the tough guys, and it's not really my problem if he doesn't."

Re: Discussion #2

[suitably_heroic]

"So that's it?" Atton said. "Your responsibility ends at the giving?"

Re: Discussion #2

[beautifulsenshi.livejournal.com]

"I don't generally carry cash, because I'm too likely to spend it on candy or a video game," Minako admitted with no shame whatsoever. "But I'd give him my lunch, or whatever snacks I had in my bag."

Minako always had snacks in her bag. Sometimes they were even healthy!

Re: Discussion #2

[spin_kick_snap]

"I'd buy him a sandwich and probably slip some cash in a napkin or something," Kathy said. That was exactly the kind of thing that drove her father nuts, but she couldn't help it. "I'm a soft touch, I know." She sounded like that was a bad thing.

Talk to the Teachers

[saddeserthermit]

Two and a half Jedi.

Re: Talk to the Teachers

[saddeserthermit]

Obi-Wan was failing to resist the urge to rub his forehead. Sigh.

Re: Talk to the Teachers

[suitably_heroic]

Atton was mostly just trying to avoid the cat's ire.

"Look, I'm sorry about the stupid tiger thing, all right?!"

OOC

[saddeserthermit]

Atton's final example comes straight out of his canon and has two flavors.

Knights of the Old Republic 2 is such a happy, uncomplicated canon.