Ethics, Tuesday, January 12, 2015

[sith_happened]

"Today we're going to start with one of the most common ethical dilemmas when you're not working alone," Anakin began, standing straight in front of the classroom with his cold fingers tucked up into his Jedi robes. (Winter was ridiculous. Being cold was ridiculous. Being married for years to a girl from Connecticut didn't make winter less pointless, in Anakin's opinion.) "Do you follow orders exactly or do you follow your gut when the situation changes?"

Obi-Wan might have made a joke about Anakin's sensitivity to the cold, but considering the circumstances, he batted the thought away. He was making no such displays with his own robes. "To be precise," he said, "when is it worth the risk to flee to another's defense despite being specifically told not to do so?"

No one would was actually innocent would look as innocent as Anakin did right then. "For those of you who are already acquainted with this island, it's not a surprise to you to learn that we have fairly regular invasions of...things."

"Things" was nice and non-specific. "And almost every time, the administration advises the students to stay safe and not get involved and we pretty much plan for you to ignore that order with impunity. Because it's human nature to defend those we care about, orders be damned."

Guess which side of the argument Anakin fell on, kids? Go on, guess.

"However, taking such actions can expose you to greater risks," Obi-Wan said mildly. Consider which end of the argument he fell on. These days. "Consider the scene: a friend has been sent on a mission to spy on a gathering of people who may be inclined to attack your home planet at a later date. In the process of spying, he is captured by enemy forces. The enemy intends to put him on trial. Now, they have not attacked yet, and sending in a force to reclaim the captured spy could easily escalate the conflict beyond ideas into reality."

"Or it could have led to them executing him and I wasn't the one who called in the Troopers," Anakin shot back, making a face. This had become a lot less hypothetical, suddenly. "I hadn't planned on getting caught."

He never did.

"You rarely do, but it was a risk inherent in disobeying the orders you were given," Obi-Wan said. "Now, you've made it clear to class what actually happened - but I wonder, what would they do in a situation such as this? If a friend was captured and at risk of execution, what would you do? Especially if someone told you that the risks of doing so extended far beyond yourself?"

Comments

Sign in [1/13]

[sith_happened]

Following orders!

Re: Sign in [1/13]

[iceolatedqueen.livejournal.com]

Elsa of Arendelle

Listen to the lecture

[sith_happened]

Welcome, class, to day two of the Kenobi-Skywalker sniping hour!

Re: Listen to the lecture

[nolizardhere]

This...did not sound like such a hypothetical situation. Andros was a little afraid that no matter how he answered he was going to anger at least one of his teachers.

Re: Listen to the lecture

[gavegoodface]

This was amazing. Face knew he should have brought popcorn.

Re: Listen to the lecture

[sarcastic-vamp.livejournal.com]

"Did anyone bring popcorn for this?" Carmilla remarked. The sniping was the best part of the class!

Re: Listen to the lecture

[spin_kick_snap]

Kathy propped her chin in her hand to listen to then bickering. This would have worried her, her first semester here, but after a class with Pam and Cheryl, this? Was nothing.

Answer the discussion question!

[sith_happened]

"If a friend was captured and at risk of execution, what would you do? Especially if someone told you that the risks of doing so extended far beyond yourself?"

Re: Answer the discussion question!

[iceolatedqueen.livejournal.com]

"I'm... very used to risks that extend beyond myself," Elsa offered, biting her lip, "and the notion that any decision I make might have terrible consequences for those who aren't in any position to choose. Can these people be negotiated with?"

She didn't want to look around the classroom to see what eyes might be on her, right now. She was simply looking up at the teachers.

She was to be Queen someday. Once she was, her decisions could never truly be her own. And even now... she thought that maybe she had a bit of experience with that already.

Re: Answer the discussion question!

[thegreywaren.livejournal.com]

"Depends on which friend," Ronan said darkly. "Answer'll be different for different people. I can't make a solid decision if I don't know who's captured and five minutes from being offed."

Re: Answer the discussion question!

[nolizardhere]

"If I was the person captured in such a situation," Andros said slowly, because for him that was not entirely hypothetical, "I wouldn't want my friends to try to rescue me if it was going to jeopardize the very thing I was working for." If all his friends weren't dead or frozen, that was. "So I think that if one of my friends was in that situation--while I know it would be hard for me to resist at least trying to rescue them--I would try to trust that they knew what they were doing when they got themselves into that situation, like I would hope they would if it was me. I wouldn't just abandon them," he added, "but I would try not to interfere in a way that would risk the whole mission except as a last resort."

Re: Answer the discussion question!

[notacokeperson.livejournal.com]

Oh god.

Karina toyed with her pen and thought about it hard before even considering opening her mouth and giving an answer.

"I think it depends?" she said, finally. "Like, what are the consequences of escalation? Also, what is the backlash that'd come down on you if people, like, found out you could've done something to help them and you didn't. Or that you did and you caused terrible situation that everyone's dealing with?"

She shrugged slightly. "The backlash and what that can do to your reputation also matters. If you destroy your reputation and lose your power to help mitigate the situation because you let your friend die, is it really better to have let your friend die? On the other hand, if you save your friend and cause a war, there's going to be a lot of people who are angry that you, you know, caused a war, which is going to negatively impact your power to adequately handle challenges of a similar nature going forward."

Karina did not have a lot of experience in actually ruling anything, but she did have a ton of experience in dealing with public opinion.

Re: Answer the discussion question!

[sarcastic-vamp.livejournal.com]

Carmilla really didn't want to think about that question. She kept her expression bored and shrugged.

"Oh well," she said. "Everybody has to die some day. Nice knowing you, friend."

Re: Answer the discussion question!

[gavegoodface]

Face thought about it. Then thought about it some more. "I don't know," he finally said.

Re: Answer the discussion question!

[pasunereveuse.livejournal.com]

"What's the security like?" Celia asked softly, surprising herself a little. "How fair are my chances of getting him out undetected? What are their advantages?"

She frowned, twisting her right ring finger a little anxiously. "I don't like the idea of leaving someone stranded, regardless of whether we're friends. If it's possible to get him out, I think I'd have to take the risk."

Re: Answer the discussion question!

[princessarcasm]

"I want to say I'd stay away since that's probably the right call," Amy admitted. "But I don't know if I'd actually be able to stick to that in the real world. I hope I would?"

The idea of negotiating in a hostage situation was a little tricky for Amy to wrap her head around.

Re: Answer the discussion question!

[not_a_moonie]

"Depends on who the friend is, right?" Alana asked. "I wouldn't want to get extra people hurt. But if it was somebody I really loved, I don't know if I could just hang back and follow orders."

Re: Answer the discussion question!

[beautifulsenshi.livejournal.com]

Oh wow, loaded question. And boy, did Minako have a few different answers for it.

She twisted her fingers in her skirt, thinking. Finally, she said, "You can go the diplomatic route, stall for time while trying to come to some sort of agreement to stop the execution and hopefully get them home. But if you get to a point where you have to choose..." Minako bit her lip. "Averting a potential war doesn't make it right that you let someone die. If you start making excuses like that - it might cause something, it could make a problem - doesn't it just become easier to justify the next thing that happens?"

"You go get them, and you bring them home."

Re: Answer the discussion question!

[not-called-icky.livejournal.com]

"Orders should perhaps not be ignored lightly," Ichabod said thoughtfully. "But my conscience would tell me to attempt to save my friend. Should he die, what comfort would it be that I was obeying orders?"

Re: Answer the discussion question!

[justwantedfriends]

"I... really can't imagine leaving someone behind, especially if they're a friend," Kira said. "I would try to negotiate to get my friend back, and if I couldn't... yeah, I'd probably do something dumb to try to get them back." At least she was honest?

Re: Answer the discussion question!

[spin_kick_snap]

"I'd go and save them," Kathy said immediately. Because that's what heroes did. They saved people, even when the cost was high. "I mean, yeah, I expect my friend to be able to take care of themself, but what if they're hurt? Being tortured? Unconscious? I can't sit back and expect them to be able to make it out by themselves--or just write them off as expendable for the greater good. Because when you start deciding the greater good can be built on the sacrifices of innocents, just how good can it be?

She frowned, guessing her answer probably had some people labeling her childish and naive. "But I wouldn't just run in and try to pull off a rescue with nothing more than the belief that doing the right thing would be enough. I'd try to come up with a plan first, explore other avenues than just a full frontal assault."

Re: Answer the discussion question!

[fly-so-serious.livejournal.com]

"Plausible deniability," Joker answered. "A small strike team, officially unsanctioned. If you acknowledge that the personnel exist, then they're considered AWOL for the duration of the mission. I mean, that's how they do it in the movies, right? It's harder to go to war with someone if they're not officially aware they did anything."

Joker looked at his two teachers and grinned. "And if I were you," he said, pointing at Kenobi, "I'd find someone like him, 'accidentally' let slip the information, and then loudly forbid him to go. Problem solved."

Re: Answer the discussion question!

[nobloodymessiah.livejournal.com]

"I don't control the risks," Eleanor said calmly. "I don't control what other people choose to do, or what dominoes fall from here. The world is full of infinite maybes. I only control myself. And I'm not leaving a friend to die when I could save him or her."

Talk to the teachers!

[sith_happened]

Two Jedi, no waiting!

Re: Talk to the teachers!

[saddeserthermit]

Obi-Wan had slipped his hands into the sleeves of his robes, though not because he was particularly cold.

Knowing the exact consequences of what had transpired on Geonosis... he was wondering, privately, if there were lessons he should have learned earlier himself.

OOC

[sith_happened]

Come on, migraine meds, work faster...