fandomhigh | Practical Philosophy, Monday

The sky was overcast, but the temperatures weren't terribly low and the threat of rain not so high that Ender opted to stay indoors. Instead they were out on the dorm lawn again, a bag of sandwiches sitting in what would soon be the center of a circle of students.

Before he started talking in general, he glanced towards Yeul and said, "I'd like to see you after class, please."

Then his attention shifted. "Last week, we experienced some interesting events," Ender said, only a little dry humor obvious from his tone of voice. "The peppers were a nuisance, that's for sure. I hope all of you made it through unharmed and unsinged." They usually did at Fandom-- he didn't think he spotted any major injuries.

"Now, the phones are a semi-annual problem. I've experienced that one several times since I came here. I always don't realize what is going on until I've already made a few calls of my own - and I'm always left wondering what prompted me to respond in the first place," he said. "What is it that makes us want to say something back when someone says something to us? Why can't we just let obviously confused, crazy people be?"

He shrugged. "Maybe it's because our lives are built and supported by our ability to communicate, so when someone communicates oddly at us, we're alarmed," he said. "Maybe we've just all got tempers. Maybe we're just trying to turn a freak occasion into some amusement for ourselves. Or maybe it's just human nature for the entire tribe to start shouting when one member does."

He stretched his legs out. "How was your week?" he asked.

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"I think harm is relative," Yeul said quietly, hoping that Evan and Sholeh were not too distressed by this conversation, if they heard it. More than anyone else she knew, she tried to protect them.

"And that there are many worse things than a harm you know over one you cannot endure."

"Are there?" Ender asked, just as quietly. "The harm we cannot endure is the one we are more inclined to rail against, to fight. The harm we know can be the one we accept and leave to fester."

"What if there is no fighting?" Yeul asked. "What if nothing is ever changed? Is it not better to just accept the hurt and move forward?"

"Everything changes eventually," Ender said. "Even if it's just us expiring. You can hope for that, I suppose, but it's not a terribly natural state for our species."

Yeul was far too polite to laugh at him. Her eyes sparkled with amusement nonetheless.

"Does everything have to be in a natural state to be considered 'good'?"

Ender's expression remained neutral.

"Did you hear me use the word 'good'?" he asked.

"No," she said. "But when talking about harm and how it is not a natural state for humans, does that not mean a natural state would, in contrast, be 'good'? I could be wrong, of course."

Edited 2013-05-20 14:40 (UTC)

"A natural state is a natural state," Ender said. "Your average human being prefers to fight until the option is taken from them. It's little to do with good or bad and everything to do with the fact that biologically, our only real imperative is to spread and duplicate for as long as possible-- to stay alive as a species."

"That sounds like a lonely baseline," Yeul said quietly. "Perhaps my baseline is not average but I think I prefer it to that."

"It's not when you factor in that part of our excellent survivability balances on our ability to be social creatures," Ender said with a gentle shrug. "Though, there's another notion to keep in mind. Self-sacrifice can be a useful contributor to group survival rates - but a member of the pack that is harmed and perpetuates that harm might also damage the psychological state of the group."

"What if there is no group?" Yeul asked softly.

Ender smiled at her. "Oh, you have a group."

"Here, perhaps," Yeul said, though she did not smile. "Though I would not call them mine even if they call be one of theirs."

"It doesn't work that way," Ender said simply. "Not once people are invested in your well-being. Not as long as you stay put here."

She did smile then. Very faintly.

"I appreciate their investment," Yeul said. "It will change nothing though and I wish they would not."

Now that was a familiar one.

"Why?" Ender asked clinically, in lieu of arguing.

"Because it will hurt everyone involved in the end," Yeul said quietly.

"Why?" Ender repeated.

"Some things are unchangeable," Yeul said, looking serene. "My fate is one of those. I know what awaits me and all the good intentions and affection and attempts to change it will do nothing. I do not fight it and I would rather others did not."

"Don't you think that's a little arrogant?" Ender asked, still sounding perfectly neutral.

"Is it arrogance if it's true?" she wondered.

"Is it true that you will do such lasting harm to your friends when you leave that it is not worth being close to you at all?" Ender asked.

"I did not say I would leave," she said mildly. "Just that I know what awaits me."

It wasn't a correction, since he was more right than wrong.

"I do not know how lasting the harm will be to them," Yeul continued. "I would spare them any amount of pain when it comes to me."

"And that is where you're arrogant," Ender said. "It isn't your place to weigh those odds for anyone else."

"Perhaps," she said quietly. "But are you not just as arrogant for judging me without knowing me?"

Re: Talk.

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