fandomhigh | Ethics [Thursday, January 19, 2012, 1st period]

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ethics

Ethics [Thursday, January 19, 2012, 1st period]

When the class arrived, they would find their names on desks--Anakin had come up with a seating chart for the rest of the semester.

He was holding a giant mug of (decaf, Rory could tell if he was sneaking caffeine while she couldn't have any) coffee as he entered the room and gave his TAs papers to pass out, then went to the board and wrote out: "Utilitarianism: it is the greatest happiness of the greatest number that is the measure of right and wrong," then turned to face his students. "Do you think this is true? If what gives the majority pleasure is watching Christians getting eaten by lions, or a four-day-marathon of that show about the orange people who live in New Jersey, does that make it right? What will protect the rights of the individual in a society ruled by utilitarianism--who in this example might be a Christian who enjoys PBS--or do those really matter?"

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See who's around you and chat about how this weekend has to be less weird than the last one.

Like you've been forced to watch the orange people on TV because someone else had control over the remote.

Stacey McGill

Billy Kaplan

Loki Laufeyson

Simon Bellamy

Gabrielle

Kate Daniels

Sam Puckett

Dorothy Gale

Ryan Clark

Elle Bishop

Jim Hawkins

Dave Nelson

Try not to fall asleep, please. Anakin will notice.

"If what gives the majority pleasure is watching Christians getting eaten by lions, or a four-day-marathon of that show about the orange people who live in New Jersey, does that make it right? What will protect the rights of the individual in a society ruled by utilitarianism--who in this example might be a Christian who enjoys PBS--or do those really matter?"

"The orange people, yes, the lions no," Stacey said. "If people are getting eaten by animals for other people's entertainment, that's just wrong. People shouldn't get hurt for fun."

Unless it was in the 'I'm going to steal my best friend's crush and then dump him at the end of the year.' It was no getting eaten by lions, therefore it was fine.

"As for the orange people, they're idiots, but they're not really hurting anyone. Unless they're getting into bar fights and spreading disease-" Please ignore the shudder as Stacey still had Sex Ed class-related syphilis trauma. "-but they'd be doing that anyway. Besides, you can always change the channel."

"What if you couldn't change the channel?" Anakin asked. "What if majority ruled absolutely and so there was nothing but orange people on all the time?"

Privately, Anakin was betting on a skyrocketing rate of people finding things to do away from the television.

"I'd get a life faster than anyone has ever gotten a life before," she replied immediately.

Anakin flashed her an amused grin. "You would not be the only one."

Feeding people to lions sounded like a very Roman thing to do, although Gabrielle wasn't aware of feeding Christians to lions being a big practice in Rome in her time . . . which was probably because they didn't exist yet.

It sounded vaguely less horrifying than the orange people. But only very, very marginally so.

Still . . . she knew Julius Caesar well enough to understand that he had an interest in controlling what gave the majority pleasure.

"That depends, doesn't it?" she asked. "Do we want to assume that the people have decided what they enjoy based on what they really have available to them, or based on what they've been led to believe they should?"

It was a little cynical-sounding for her, but again, she'd spent a lot of time around Roman politicians.

"Which one seems like a more realistic option for you?" Anakin asked.

Tough question, wasn't it? Not because there were too many options or it was hard to choose, but because she didn't really like the conclusion she came to.

"Well." Gabrielle frowned slightly. "I want to say they're making a completely free choice. I would really, really love to say that. But I think we're all led to believe there are certain things we should aspire to, or qualities that are interesting or desirable, because of the events that happen around us and the stories -- or TV shows, in this day and age -- that we've heard, read, watched, et cetera. And a good story -- you know, something uplifting, with a moral to it -- isn't always the one that will interest people the most, as much as I'd like to believe it should be."

That wasn't only based on the small children who'd complained her stories were boring, and could they hear something else?

She ducked her head and shook it, shrugging. "I think there will always be at least a little of the second option involved."

"Me too," Anakin said, sounding distinctly approving. "Nicely thought out. So, given societal urges that make people believe that the fake orange people are interesting to watch, should it still be allowed?"

"I haven't watched that show," Gabrielle admitted, because it seemed like the disclaimer was important. "But it doesn't seem like a harmful kind of thing. The lions . . . that would worry me. Nobody should get that used to bloodshed. Not as entertainment."

She considered for a moment longer, chewing idly at a thumbnail as she did.

"It's a useful thing to look at," she finally decided. "Understanding what gives the majority pleasure, that is. But no, I don't think that ought to mean that makes it right. I've seen public executions . . . I've felt the stands shake when the crowd roared for a man's head --" she'd had the means to save him literally in her hands at the time, and done nothing for the sake of the greater good, which still weighed on her but she wasn't about to share that -- "and just because they love the spectacle, no matter how much they might think it's right, no matter how much he might have deserved to be held accountable for his deeds -- which isn't necessarily true, because gods know there is such a thing as propaganda -- the fact still remains that they're taking pleasure from someone's death. That . . . is something I couldn't approve of."

Anakin nodded. "I've been at those sorts of arenas myself," he said.

Normally as the main attraction. Anakin lived an interesting life.

"It's cultural acceptable in many places, but it doesn't mean it's right. So I'm guessing this means you're not a fan of the concept of utilitarianism."

Gabrielle shook her head. "Well, that's not entirely true. I like the concept. I just don't know if it can be carried out ideally."

"I don't think I'd want to be part of any society that likes to feed people to lions," Dorothy said. "But to answer the question, I'd say neither is right. But I don't see how the television one is considered a right. I'm from a time before television, and we certainly didn't need a right to it then."

"Wait for a day when the power goes out around here and listen to the complaining," Anakin advised with a tiny smile.

Dorothy looked somewhat shocked. "That's like complaining that you don't have... cake with dinner," she said, thinking of something extravagant and nice, but hardly necessary.

"It doesn't make it good, but at least no one ever died to make people orange." Kate offered. "All that's killing off are a few more braincells."

"Feeding Christians to lions, is bloodthirsty and the majority should learn to be better people." Watching people get killed for sport? Wrong. Simple as that.

"So you're not a fan of utilitarianism, then?" Anakin asked.

"I don't like people who think someone's death is entertainment," Kate corrected. "Throwing someone's life away to sate people's cry for blood, shouldn't be a good thing."

She'd done it, in the arena at Voron's insistence, and hated every minute. That might be influencing the strength of her anti- argument here.

"I... guess it really depends on whether or not people are actually getting hurt," Jim ventured. "I mean, the orange people are stupid, but I don't think anyone had to die for them to get put onto the television. And there is plenty of other stuff to do without TV. Build something, read a book, take up a sport, you know?"

Anakin nodded. "So the majority can rule if they are deciding on things that don't affect life and death?"

Jim just smiled a little and shrugged.

"I think around here, they call that democracy," he ventured. "And, okay, it's not perfect, but if it's something stupid like the television, it doesn't really hurt anything. But then you hear the big stuff, and... I don't know. It's kind of hard to classify it all."

"Suppose we have to choose between building a new sports stadium and building a new hospital. Should we build the stadium if there are many more sports fans than sick people? What about the sick people? Aren’t we sacrificing their interests?"

[OOC: This is for student-to-student discussion. Anakin won't get involved unless someone starts throwing punches.]

"If we need a new hospital, it should definitely be built," said Stacey. Of course. She had a personal interest in this! "I won't even say the sports stadium brings in more money because have you seen the cost of hospital bills today? Keeping people healthy is more important."

And she personally saw doctors and hospitals way more than she watched sports, so meh, stadium.

"And athletes get injured a lot, too," Gabrielle added. Hey, considering what the Olympics in her time were like . . . ~~And don't assume they were free of sponsorship, because Salmoneus existed.~~

"You could argue that the hospital benefits everyone more. I don't think that should even be a question."

"Me neither. Pretty much everyone will have to go to a hospital at some point, even if it's for something minor," Billy said. "And not even for injuries or being sick. Don't sports fans have kids? They have to be born somewhere."

"Isn't it a little ridiculous to say there are more sports fans than sick people?" Dorothy chimed in. "Not everyone gets ill at the same time. And doctors can help you so you don't ever get sick, too. I've never been to either, but it seems like building something like a stadium instead of a hospital is foolish."

"Not to mention that you may find sick people who are very good at maintaining a healthy appearance," Ryan quietly added. "There may be more sick people out there than anyone realizes."

Once they've completed their important paper passing out duties.

Passing out papers was practically a sacred duty! Gabrielle had taken it very seriously, all right?

Jim could hand out papers like a pro.

And hey, he got one of the good seats, so he was quite pleased to be one of the two official paper-passer-outers.

It's why he gets paid the big bucks.

I want just ONE DAY this week where my house isn't invaded by repairmen.

Today is not that day.

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Ethics [Thursday, January 19, 2012, 1st period]

Chat before class [1/19]

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Oooh, a hypothetical [1/19]

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Talk to Anakin [1/19]

OOC