History of Western Civilisation - Wednesday 5th Period: Discussion 3: Greek Politics and War

[prof-methos.livejournal.com]

All right, class. I've received a few death threats for the way I treated the Peloponnesian War in the last class... which is to say, I didn't. If you care... good for you. I don't.

So, now we're going to talk about Greek Politics and War. That is only slightly an oxymoron.

Your homework, due next Tuesday but turned in to this post is to give me at least one hundred words craftily cut-and-pasted, possibly from here on some aspect of Greek political life. Go.

[[OCD threads are up! Go ahead.]]

Comments

ATTENDANCE: Sign In: Western Civ Disc 3

[prof-methos.livejournal.com]

Please sign in below the person before you.

Re: ATTENDANCE: Sign In: Western Civ Disc 3

[izzyalienqueen.livejournal.com]

Isabel yawned and signed in.

Re: ATTENDANCE: Sign In: Western Civ Disc 3

[bruiser-in-pink.livejournal.com]

Molly signed in.

DISCUSSION 1: Western Civ Disc 3

[prof-methos.livejournal.com]

Athens is credited with the first historical democracy in Western
Civilisation. By our lights it wasn't much of a democracy, given that
it excluded all but a fraction of the population. But it attempted
something that had not been done before; the idea of a major power
which was aggressvily empire-building being run by the will and
consent of the people it governed.

Success? Failure? Venerated all out of proportion to what it really was by the modern world?

Re: DISCUSSION 1: Western Civ Disc 3

[suzotchka.livejournal.com]

Ivanova says something about it being blown of proportion considering that it was basically ruling by very large committee as it did exclude women a bunch of people except the highest echelons of male society. But in nicer words. Maybe with some fist-pounding involved.

Re: DISCUSSION 1: Western Civ Disc 3

[psi16.livejournal.com]

Many members of society were excluded, and the accomplishment may have been blown out of proportion, Lyta says, but it provided the foundations for governments founded far into the future. Or at least, it got people thinking about other forms of government, rights, and freedoms -- even if those rights and freedoms were extremely limited to the highest echelons of male society.

DISCUSSION 2: Western Civ Disc 3

[prof-methos.livejournal.com]

The history of Greece is the history of various wars, intra- and extra-Greek. Until after they were defeated by Philip of Macedonia, they never considered banding into one cohesive unit. How has "war-like culture" and individuality pervaded our own culture?

DISCUSSION 3: Western Civ Disc 3

[prof-methos.livejournal.com]

Alexander the Great conquered the Persian Empire and spread Grecian influence as far east as modern day India. It also brought back knowledge of a wider world than their own. How did the concept of exchange with 'exotic' cultures affect Greece? How does it affect us?

DISCUSSION 4: Western Civ Disc 3

[prof-methos.livejournal.com]

Anything about Greek politics and/or war that you'd like.

TALKING IN CLASS: Western Civ Disc 3

[prof-methos.livejournal.com]

Don't do it.

Re: TALKING IN CLASS: Western Civ Disc 3

[izzyalienqueen.livejournal.com]

Isabel didn't talk, she napped.

HOMEWORK: Western Civ Disc 3

[prof-methos.livejournal.com]

http://www.ancientgreece.com/

Re: HOMEWORK: Western Civ Disc 3

[izzyalienqueen.livejournal.com]

Inequality and Women in the City-state

Social and economic inequality among citizens persisted as part of life in the polis despite the legal guarantees of citizenship, The incompleteness of the equality that underlay the political structure of the city-state especially revealed itself in the status of citizen women. Women became citizens of the city-states in the crucial sense that they had an identity, social status, and local rights denied metics and slaves. The important difference between citizen and non-citizen women was made clear in the Greek language, which included terms meaning “female citizen” (politis), in certain religious cults reserved for citizen women only, and in legal protection against being kidnapped and sold into slavery. Citizen women also had recourse to the courts in disputes over property and other legal wrangles, but they could not represent themselves and had to have men speak for their interests, a requirement that reveals their inequality under the law. The traditional paternalism of Greek society--men acting as “fathers” to regulate the lives of women and safeguard their interests as defined by men--demanded that every woman have an official male guardian (kurios ) to protect them physically and legally. In line with this assumption about the need of women for regulation and protection by men, women were granted no rights to participate in politics. They never attended political assemblies, nor could they vote.

Re: HOMEWORK: Western Civ Disc 3

[suzotchka.livejournal.com]

Ivanova hands in her homework because the mun is too busy writing the nnext chapter of Harry Potter and the Immortal's Mexistache

Re: HOMEWORK: Western Civ Disc 3

[actingltcrumpet.livejournal.com]

Theseus and Democracy at Athens

It was a traditional Greek practice to explain significant historical changes such as the founding of communities or the codification of law as the work of an individual “inventor” from the distant past. Just like the Spartans, for whom the legendary Lycurgus was remembered as the founder of their city-state, the Athenians also believed their polis owed its start to a single man in the distant past. Athenian legends made Theseus responsible for founding the polis of Athens at a remote date by the synoecism of villages in Attica, the name given to the peninsula at the southeastern corner of the mainland of Greece that formed the territory of the Athenian polis . Since Attica had several fine ports along its coast, the Athenians were much more oriented to seafaring and communication with other peoples than were the almost-landlocked Spartans. Theseus made an appropriate mythical founder because he was described as a traveling adventurer, sailing, for example, to the island of Crete to defeat the Minotaur, a cannibalistic monster, half-human and half-bull. This exploit, like his other legendary adventures, or “labors” as they are called in imitation of those of Heracles, became favorite subject matter for vase painters. There can be no historical reality to the story of Theseus as the founder of Athenian democracy, but the civilizing nature of his legendary labors--he defeated many monsters who threatened travelers and polis residents alike--made his story appropriate to the aspirations of Athenian civic life.

[[Source: http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/ptext?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.04.0009&query=head%3D%2383]]

Re: HOMEWORK: Western Civ Disc 3

[bruiser-in-pink.livejournal.com]

The Beginning of Democracy in Greece

In 510 BC, the city-state of Athens created the first democratic government, and soon other Greek city-states imitated them. Even city-states that weren't Greek, like Carthage and Rome, experimented with giving the poor people more power at this time. But Athenian democracy did not really give power to everyone. Most of the people in Athens couldn't vote - no women, no slaves, no foreigners (even Greeks from other city-states), no children. And also, Athens at this time had an empire, ruling over many other Greek city-states, and none of those people living in the other city-states could vote either. Of course it is a lot easier to have a democratic government when you are only deciding what other people should do.

[[Copied from an info grab I did for another project about four years ago for which I no longer have the website address.]]

Re: HOMEWORK: Western Civ Disc 3

[dorky-broots.livejournal.com]

Broots turned in something inteligent and readable. Because his mun is sick and can't focus long enough to do anything better than that.

AFTER CLASS: Western Civ Disc 3

[prof-methos.livejournal.com]

Talk to Prof. Pierson.

Re: AFTER CLASS: Western Civ Disc 3

[izzyalienqueen.livejournal.com]

Isabel approached Professor Pierson rather sheepishly after class. "I'm sorry about falling asleep sir."

Re: AFTER CLASS: Western Civ Disc 3

[notcalledlizzie.livejournal.com]

Elizabeth appeared after the end of class.

"Professor Pierson? I just wanted to apologize for missing class yesterday."

Re: AFTER CLASS: Western Civ Disc 3

[ten-and-chips.livejournal.com]

About five minutes later, someone skips down the hall, singing 'Come On Eileen'. The voice is vaguely familiar, but cracks from time to time on the high notes.

Re: AFTER CLASS: Western Civ Disc 3

[janet_fraiser]

Janet stopped by after class with her excuse note. "Sorry, but I need to pick up the homework I missed. And I may be able to make it to the TA meeting on Friday so that Liz doesn't realize I'm injured and tell Sam, but only if I'm feeling better."

OOC: Western Civ Disc 3

[prof-methos.livejournal.com]

.~-*-~.

o0O0o0O0o0O0o

Re: OOC: Western Civ Disc 3

[swerval_zero]

Alexander/Hephaistion OTP!

*isn't even in this class, what*

Re: OOC: Western Civ Disc 3

[suzotchka.livejournal.com]

Methos leans back and regards her with a raised eyebrow. "Anything I can do to make it more entertaining? Sing and dance? Juggle?"

Yes. Please. Because now I have a singing, dancing, juggling Methos bouncing around my head. Which isn't making it easy to RP do my obair-dachaidh homework.