History of Medieval England - Thursday 6th Period: Discussion 2: Dark Ages Britain

[prof-methos.livejournal.com]

All right. So we touched briefly on King Arthur of gloriously fake memory, Alfred the Great who actually lived, and Anglo-Saxon Britain. Now it's time to talk.

Your homework, which should sound familiar already is to select a topic from your readings and cut and paste give me at least 100 words. Ready, steady, go.

[[OOC: OCD threads are up, go ahead.]]

Comments

SIGN IN: ME Disc 2

[prof-methos.livejournal.com]

Please sign in below the person above you.

Re: SIGN IN: ME Disc 2

[swerval_zero]

Zero signed in.

DISCUSSION Topic 1: King Arthur

[prof-methos.livejournal.com]

If man does not have a great leader, he feels compelled to invent him. What was Arthur to the people of the British Isles, and why is his name the one that echoes down through history?

Re: DISCUSSION Topic 1: King Arthur

[swerval_zero]

Zero looks up from decorating the hem of her shirt with safety pins. "King Arthur was...well, he was hope, wasn't he? He's gonna come back and save us when times get tough, that kind of thing. And, I thought he was real, or, well, sorta. Like, some Welsh chieftan or summat. So, you were Lancelot, then?"

Re: DISCUSSION Topic 1: King Arthur

[mparkerceo.livejournal.com]

"All things to all men. I think they could re-invent him so often because the reality was so sketchy. For each generation, they tacked new ideals onto him: French chivalry, Christian symbols, republican 'round table' governing.... but he always had a 'destiny' written for him. That way, you don't have to question his place in the story too much," Parker said dryly.

DISCUSSION Topic 2: Saxons invading Celtic Britain

[prof-methos.livejournal.com]

The Saxons are coming, the Saxons are coming!

Re: DISCUSSION Topic 2: Saxons invading Celtic Britain

[lovelylana.livejournal.com]

"The Saxons seemed to be very smart about things. They didn't just come in and take over, they intermarried with the existing people - made themselves a part of the place until eventually they *became* the people."

Re: DISCUSSION Topic 2: Saxons invading Celtic Britain

[mparkerceo.livejournal.com]

"So how did the Angles and the Saxons get together? And why isn't it the Saxon-Angles? Was it a treaty, or did they just kind of melt together in a great big intermarriage scheme and all the kids took both their parents tribal names?"

Parker's grinning.

DISCUSSION Topic 3: Scandinavians invading Saxon Britain

[prof-methos.livejournal.com]

The Vikings are coming, the Vikings are coming!

Re: DISCUSSION Topic 3: Scandinavians invading Saxon Britain

[swerval_zero]

Zero's in an impish mood, what can you do? "So, when the Vikings fought the Indians..."

Re: DISCUSSION Topic 3: Scandinavians invading Saxon Britain

[lovelylana.livejournal.com]

"The whole time of the Viking invasions seems like a pretty big time of upheavel in general. It sounds like they spent a fair amount of time fighting each other which left them pretty open for attacks from outside. It must have been a very confusing time to live in."

DISCUSSION Topic 4: Religion and Learning in Anglo-Saxon Britain

[prof-methos.livejournal.com]

Mr. Adama asked a very interesting question on Tuesday (http://community.livejournal.com/fandomhigh/522937.html?thread=24636345#t24636345), namely, did the invading hoardes also have different religious beliefs? Answer: Sometimes. One of the things that Alfred the Great was credited with was converting the Scandinavian king of his generation to Christianity, with the unspoken assumption that Christianity would civilise and gentle him. In truth, the cultural clashes between the groups often involved religion, but were more profoundly on tribal lines.

The clearest instance of that is the rift between the Celtic Church and the Church of Rome, who had different criteria for locating Easter in the calendar, leading to one Easter being a week after the other. At the Synod of Whitsby, the Church of Rome's predominance in such matters was unescapably established.

So. We have Norse worshipping Norse gods, Christians who follow Rome, Christians who follow Ireland, and the ever-popular peasant who will pray to anyone who keeps himi alive.

Re: DISCUSSION Topic 4: Religion and Learning in Anglo-Saxon Britain

[swerval_zero]

"I'd be with the equal-opportunity peasants on this one. Except for that they tried to burn me."

Re: DISCUSSION Topic 4: Religion and Learning in Anglo-Saxon Britain

[lovelylana.livejournal.com]

"It sounds like you're saying that the religious issues were more important to the ruling class, while the peasants sort of continued doing whatever worked for them. Were they still following a more earth/nature based religion at the time and kind of mixing it in with the Christian beliefs?"

Re: DISCUSSION Topic 4: Religion and Learning in Anglo-Saxon Britain

[aka-vala.livejournal.com]

"Yeah, people are pretty much the same all over the galaxy everywhere you go. You have some people willing to die for their particular beliefs, but most people will worship whatever keeps them alive. Or shouts "Kneel Before Your God!" the loudest."

Re: DISCUSSION Topic 4: Religion and Learning in Anglo-Saxon Britain

[mparkerceo.livejournal.com]

"I was interested that they were actively trying to convert people without killing too many, but by subverting their own religion. Taking over their churches, and their holidays, re-naming saints... Within a generation or two in an area, some of the people wouldn't know the difference. But those that remembered, I'd expect, would be fairly disturbed. I can't decide if it was a smart approach or not, but I guess it worked, so...."

Re: DISCUSSION Topic 4: Religion and Learning in Anglo-Saxon Britain

[mparkerceo.livejournal.com]

"Think this made a difference later? I mean, do you think England starting out with a lot of beliefs, meant they were more open to re-writing stuff later?"

TALKING IN CLASS: ME Disc 2

[prof-methos.livejournal.com]

Talk behind your hands, toss notes, etc. But don't expect that Methos won't snark on you if he catches you.

AFTER CLASS: ME Disc 2

[prof-methos.livejournal.com]

Add/drops processed here. Also, ask questions that you didn't want to ask in front of the class.

HOMEWORK: ME Disc 2

[prof-methos.livejournal.com]

Turn in next Tuesday's homework here. Your homework, which should sound familiar already is to select a topic from your readings (http://britannia.com/history/h50.html) and cut and paste give me at least 100 words.

Re: HOMEWORK: ME Disc 2

[lovelylana.livejournal.com]

St. Oswald's Priory in Gloucester was founded by the last King of Mercia, Aethelred II, and his formidable wife, Lady Aethelflaed, in about 890. Aethelflaed was the daughter of her husband's overlord, the powerful King Alfred the Great of Wessex. She had been virtually ruling the Kingdom of Mercia since her husband had been struck down with a debilitating illness about two years before. Perhaps the foundation was undertaken in the hope of some divine relief for the ailing monarch. It was certainly part of a major rebuilding programme in the city, as the place was being fortified as part of a string of Mercian defensive burghs.

Re: HOMEWORK: ME Disc 2

[upforachase.livejournal.com]

When Anglo-Saxon settlers first moved into Britain in the 450s, they quickly began to divide Britain up into numerous petty kingdoms. Though London fell within the Kingdom of the East Saxons, its importance was obviously recognised by these newcomers and the city was often taken under direct control of the Essex overlords: variously Kings of Kent, Mercia or Wessex. The area within the old Roman walls was left almost wholly deserted, though there may have been an Essex Royal Palace somewhere nearby. Soon after the arrival of Christianity in the Saxon parts of Britain in 597, however, King Aethelbert of Kent built the first St. Paul's Cathedral within the Ludgate, supposedly replacing a pagan Saxon temple.

Re: HOMEWORK: ME Disc 2

[swerval_zero]

((OOC: NOT MY ACTUAL HOMEWORK, but I found it on my hard drive and couldn't resist. Wrong time period for today's homework, and slightly edited from the original to make it FH-friendly. Also, I am possibly insane.))

The Conversion of Northumbria
As told by the Venerable Bede.
Reenvisioned by Zero Hopeless-Savage.
A drama.

MISSIONARY DUDE (aka BISHOP PAULINUS): Hey. You should all be Christians.
KING EDWIN: Works for me. Let me talk to these other guys for a minute. Hey, guys, what do you think?
SOME GUY: Life...is like a sparrow. Flying into Caritas on a winter's day.
KING EDWIN: Wait. What?
SOME GUY: It is warm for a moment, and it poops on some poor student's head, and then it is gone. And cold.
KING EDWIN: Oooookay. Grand High Priest Coifi, what say you?
GRAND HIGH PRIEST: My Lord, long have I thought our religion was false and without virtue.
KING EDWIN: Wait, what?
GRAND HIGH PRIEST: Indeed, give me a stallion and arms, that I may--
KING EDWIN: Dude, swords don't grow on trees.
GRAND HIGH PRIEST: --That I may proclaim this new religion, which is clearly the one true way, to your subjects.
KING EDWIN: I'm sorry, Grand High Priest of what, exactly? I think I missed something here.
GRAND HIGH PRIEST: Oh, and we should burn all our temples, too.
KING EDWIN: Works for me!

[curtain]

Re: HOMEWORK: ME Disc 2

[mparkerceo.livejournal.com]

Canute (or Cnut) I, or Canute the Great (Danish: Knud II den Store, Norwegian: Knut den mektige) (994/995 – November 12, 1035) was king of England, Denmark and Norway and governor or overlord of Schleswig and Pomerania. He was the son of sea-king Sweyn Forkbeard who was an avid supporter of the old faith and reputedly a member of the Jomsvikings. Canute's mother was Gunhild (formerly Swiatoslawa daughter of Mieszko I of Poland).

Accompanying his father on his successful invasion of England in August 1013, Canute was proclaimed king by the Danish fleet on Sweyn's death the following February, but returned to Denmark (April 1014) on the restoration of the defeated king Ethelred the Unready by the Witenagemot of English nobles.

Invading England once more (August 1015), Canute fought a series of inconclusive conflicts with the English led by Ethelred and (from April 1016) by Ethelred's son, Edmund II of England until his crushing victory (October 1016) at the Battle of Assandun (probably either Ashingdon or Ashdon (known as Ascenduná in the Little Domesday Book of 1086), both in Essex, England). Meeting on an island in the river Severn, Canute and Edmund agreed to divide the kingdom, but Edmund's death (November 1016) left Canute as sole ruler, leading to his acclamation as king by the Witenagemot in January 1017.

By dividing the country (1017) after the Danish fashion into the four great earldoms of Wessex, Mercia, East Anglia and Northumbria, he instituted the system of territorial lordships which would underlie English government for centuries. The very last Danegeld ever to be paid, a sum of £82,500, was paid to Canute in 1018. He felt secure enough to send the invasion fleet back to Denmark with a payment of £72,000 that same year.

Canute is generally regarded as a wise and successful king of England, although this view may in part be attributable to his good treatment of the church, which controlled the history writers of the day. Thus we see him described even today as a religious man, despite the fact that he lived openly in what was effectively a bigamous relationship, and despite his responsibility for many political murders.

He is perhaps best remembered for the legend of how he commanded the waves to go back. According to the legend, he grew tired of flattery from his courtiers. When one such flatterer gushed that the king could even command the obedience of the sea, Canute proved him wrong by practical demonstration at Thorney Island, his point being that even a king's powers have limits. Unfortunately, this legend is sometimes misunderstood to mean that he believed himself so powerful that the natural elements would obey him, and that his failure to command the tides only made him look foolish. It is quite possible that the legend is simply pro-Canute propaganda.

OOC

[prof-methos.livejournal.com]

Mary had a little lamb, her fleece was white as snow, and everywhere that Mary went, the lamb was sure to go.

Re: OOC

[swerval_zero]

*is actually Mary*