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Cultural Understanding, Monday

There was smoke wafting out from just off the island. Okay. Alistair was just going to... let that go. Maker, he hoped this didn't mean more darkspawn. He glanced towards Morrigan.

"Religion," Morrigan began, "Religion is a collection of cultural systems, belief systems, and worldviews that establishes symbols that relate humanity - and other sentient races - to spirituality and moral values. They tend to derive morality, ethics, religious laws or a preferred lifestyle from their ideas about the cosmos and human nature."

"They are usually wrong, and rarely compatible with each other."

Oh, Morrigan.

"Sure, if you want to be dry and boring and wrong about it," Alistair argued (though at least half just to disagree with her, which he hadn't done enough lately), "Religion is about right and wrong, about the values we should hold dear to our hearts." Just because he'd hated living in the Chantry didn't mean he hadn't had the Andastrian beaten into him from a young age. "That doesn't mean that those who stand for it are always right," he ameliorated, "Much death and destruction can come of it, if you take it too zealously. But take the Chant - despite how rabid the Chantry can be, at heart Andraste's teachings are about being kind to one another. Bringing some light back into the world despite overpowering darkness."

"Then 'twas turned around and used to justify the genocide and enslavement of the elves who had made her Chant possible," Morrigan pointed out. Nicely. "While a religion may start small, they often grow and claim to be universal, believing their laws and cosmology to be binding for everyone."

"Especially once it becomes law."

"Look," Alistair said, turning to Morrigan. "I did say that a good portion of the Chantry consists of people who'd rather shove a Sword of Mercy straight through anything that offends them, but that doesn't mean all of the teachings are wrong. Andraste stood up to put an end to slavery - to put an end to all the sacrifices and turn the Maker's attention back to us."

"This is why tolerance and acceptance, while rare, are needed to survive," Morrigan replied. "A good example: I don't steal children from the local village - contrary to popular belief - and in return, the local Chantry only occasionally sends a templar after me. We tolerate each other until someone can't stand it anymore."

"And a lot of patience it's got to take them, too," Alistair muttered under his breath. He turned back towards the class. "The dwarves worship their ancestors, or so I hear. They say they hear their Paragons speaking through the stone they live in. Some of the clerics say they worship false Gods, but I don't believe that gives us the right to go after them. Or the elves-- they believe in their gods of nature."

And Morrigan's mother, but she wasn't going to discuss that here. "We would like to know how religion in your world is associated with with common rights such as education, healers, the family, government, and politics. Things in which one religion should not dominate, but often does. What sort of balance has been achieved between faiths, or do you have any faiths at all?"

"'Blessed are they who stand before the corrupt and the wicked and do not falter. Blessed are the peacekeepers, the champions of the just," Alistair quoted; it was one of the few verses from the Chant of Light he remembered, but the class didn't need to know that. It was important to him, that was the thing. "Do any of you think religion can lead to peace?" he asked. "That the good things might overpower the bad?"

That came out sounding more wavering than he'd hoped, but he wasn't going to go into why.

"Do we need religions to be good people, or are we capable of it on our own?" Morrigan asked. "For 'All things in this world are finite. What one man gains, another has lost. Those who steal from their brothers and sisters do harm to their livelihood and to their peace of mind.'" Take that, Chantry Boy.

Sure, pick one from the canticle he only half-knew. Alistair looked thoughtful for a few moments because he was trying to remember the blasted thing, after spending so much time either ignoring the clerics or trying to forget what they were teaching him just to spite them. "That's the same canticle that says that the faithful repenter, unshaken by the darkness of the world-- is unshaken even a word?-- will know peace, isn't it?" he said. "That the Maker is our beacon and our shield, foundation and sword. I think that stands for something. But whatever, this isn't for us to decide, Morrigan. Class? Opinions?

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"We would like to know how religion in your world is associated with with common rights such as education, healers, the family, government, and politics. Things in which one religion should not dominate, but often does. What sort of balance has been achieved between faiths, or do you have any faiths at all?"

"Do any of you think religion can lead to peace? That the good things might overpower the bad?"

"Do we need religions to be good people, or are we capable of it on our own?"

Some big questions. What do you think? What is it like in your world? Discuss!

"Uh..." Mercy wasn't really prepared for any sort of theological discussion today. "Um... where I come from there are lots of different faiths, many of which have been used historically as excuses to start wars or persecute others of different faiths. Still, I think that if people could remember that the basis of most faiths is about being kind to one another it might be able to help bring peace."

"And faith is certainly important and worthwhile to me."

Edited 2011-09-12 12:43 (UTC)

"It can be good and worthwhile," Alistair acknowledged. "So what do you believe in?"

"I believe in God," Mercy said. "I've felt his presence clearly in my life. But I wouldn't presume to tell someone else what they should believe."

"I come from a galaxy with trillions and trillions of beings, so there's really no universal belief system other than an understanding that the Force exists," Ben replied. "The Jedi, who are among those who can tap into and use the Force, have been linked with the ruling of the galaxy almost as far back as records go. We aren't involved in education other than our own, but we are very involved in an advisory capacity...sort of...to the government which unfortunately links us to politics, and our healers can sometimes cure things that even the most advanced doctor or medical droid can't figure out."

Edited 2011-09-12 13:58 (UTC)

Alistair looked... a little confused. "But other people do believe in this Force?" he checked.

Ben nodded. "It's something that is, like gravity, but only the Force-sensitive who have been properly trained can manipulate it."

"My former home, Azarath, was founded by the goddess Azar," Raven said. "She, and then her daughter, and her granddaughter after her, was the religious leader of Azarath, and the political as well, I suppose, though there was little in the way of politics there." Except for when it came to dealing with half-demon daughters of Trigon.

"All of Azarath were pacifists and would raise no weapon even in their own defense," she went on. "It made for a place of great peace, but in the end it brought about Azarath's destruction."

"So do you think that this time of peace was worth all the destruction afterwards?" Alistair asked.

"They knew eventually they would be called upon to give their lives to defeat evil," Raven said quietly after a moment's thought. "I think they believe it was worth it."

"Religion where I am from," Rosella offered with the thoughtful tact of her training, "is a mostly private matter. There is a general belief in higher beings and gods, and there are few religious organizations and monasteries scattered throughout the lands, but it is something one tends to on a sort of...personal level. I do not think that religion necessarily dictates one's behavior. For example, I should like to think I have a good heart, but I am utterly bored out of my mind during weekly masses! But we do go, especially out of respect, because, in my mother's homeland of Kolyma, the Monastery o the Blessed Wilbury has been a strong force in helping prevent citizens from the plight of the vampires that lived there. However, some religions may not be so helpful. There is a legend of a Society of the Black Cloak in my world, as well, a sort of religion of wizards who have gone quite bad..."

Rosella shook her head a little, feeling an unwelcome chill race up her spine and rattle her.

"I suppose religion in my world is quite like magic: what is done with it is more of a reflection of the person themselves rather than than the thing itsself."

"But there are religions fitting to certain groups of people in certain places, aren't there?" Alistair asked. "I'm sure not everyone's bored out of their minds at the masses... though who can blame them if they are?"

Alistair was totally a bored-at-masses guy, too.

Rosella grinned, just a little. She'd gotten pretty good at forcing those down during her lessons. "No, of course not," she said with a nod of her head. "Just as there are those who aren't bored out of their minds during lectures, either. But it's still mostly a quiet thing; religion is mostly something most people simply keep to themselves and to their homes and likeminded communities."

"I can't speak for the ...regular world," Jocelyn said. "Except to say that like usual they miss the more important point and focus on stupid differences. But Shadowhunters know that all the stories are true - all religions help in the only important battle against demons."

"That's what the Grey Wardens believe," Alistair said. And half the reason Duncan had sent him here in the first place, to rob him of the worst edges of his pre-Warden beliefs. "That it doesn't matter what or who you believe in. The only thing that matters is keeping everyone safe from the darkspawn."

She nodded. "Every church or temple in the world has a stash of weapons against demons." Though you had to wear Shadowhunter runes to get your hands on them. "But half their priests or whatever would rather focus on blaming hurricanes and wildfires on other paths. It's idiotic."

Alistair wrinkled his nose in disgust. "I know the type," he said, "Duncan's been riding around Ferelden, warning people about the coming Blight. But most of the Chantry would rather keep on chasing mages and pretending like there aren't darkspawn running around the forests now."

"In Oz, there's a few religions," Elphaba said. "They tend to clash a bit, and those who still worship Ozma can often get funny looks from the people who think she's part of a backwards, old faith. Which I don't follow, because there's more evidence that she was real than most things in these new faiths. But ever since the Wizard came to power, it's been a bit vogue to embrace new thinking and leave the past behind. As for whether it's needed to be good... I don't see why they'd be intertwined like that. People will act how people will act... and rarely do they act for good, unless it suits them."

...Mother Night. This was going to lead to trouble. Karla could tell.

"In my world, we worship the Darkness," she said quietly. " Unlike every other world, or so it seems, we do not associate the Darkness with evil. The Darkness is from whence all things spring: our lives, our Craft, everything. It is the source of all things and every member of the Blood believes in it."

"Well, there are a lot of different religions in my world," Petra said slowly. "Some of them are related, though. And sometimes they don't get along...like...at all. In my country people tend to let the dominant religion--or at least, their interpretation of the dominant religion--influence politics, when really, legally, church and state are supposed to be separated. And I don't think religions can lead to peace, and I don't think they make people good, because people are assholes and will use religion to be nasty and mean and take away people's rights and make people feel like dirt and tell people they're wrong just for being the way they are." Petra stopped herself, flashed about half a smile, and said, "I have issues."

Edited 2011-09-12 20:12 (UTC)

"Part of me wants to be cynical and say that without religion, some people wouldn't be capable of being good, like when kids go away to college and get totally wasted because all of a sudden their parents aren't there anymore to yell at them. Some people are only good because they think if they aren't, their god will smite them," Billy said. "Then again, a lot of people have done terrible, vicious things in the name of their religions, so it's not like those religions are creating good people. And there are plenty of atheists who are totally moral and lead good lives. So...no, I don't think we need religion. It's nice to have beliefs, but it shouldn't be necessary for a person to be good."

"The first humans we live among have none of this religion," Firekeeper shared. "So it were very surprising when we travel to another land where the people there believe a great many things are decided by gods, and some live their whole lives serving them." Or sometimes, wrestle them and come out changed, she thought, but did not say aloud.

"I think I am good enough people, and I have no religion," she added with a shrug. Just because she had interacted with beings that others called deities did not mean she worshipped them.

Edited 2011-09-13 00:28 (UTC)

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Cultural Understanding, Monday

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