Friday Ethics Class #3, 8-10am

[brambless.livejournal.com]

Two boxes sit on Tara's desk. One is filled with homemade cookies, with a small placard labelled 'To all those who attempted the assignment - help yourselves!'. The other is a bin to return the Master/slave badges at the end of the class.

Tara smiles as the students settle down.

"I told you last week that part of the point of this assignment was to separate out the issues of slavery and abuse. There are many, many issues with slavery, even without abusive elements attached, and I want to tell you how proud I am of all of you for attempting the assignment - especially those of you who were uncomfortable with it. I have a lot I want to say, but I'm going to bite my tongue and let you all speak, first. Tell me about your experiences with the assignment - what was challenging for you? What was easier than you thought it would be? Do you have any insights you would like to share?"

[ooc: If you would provide linkage to any RPed assignment bits and pieces, I would be forever grateful when it comes time for grading. Also, those of you who made icons? I adore you, and worship your icon-fu.]


Before class lets out, Tara makes a short announcement.

"I would not ask anything of you that I am unwilling to do myself - including act as a slave. Anyone who completed the assignment is eligible to 'win' me as a slave, under the same terms of the assignment as you performed. I realise many of you are probably glad that this is over, but if you are interested, or want revenge, please put your name down on the sheet provided. I will post this as a voting list, and the involved parties will decide as a class who is to Master me, and what is to be done with me."

[ooc: Off to bed. Play nicely, see you all in the morning. Um, my morning. *as usual, kicks stupid timezones*]

Comments

First Hour

[brambless.livejournal.com]

Discussing the assignment, as above.

Re: First Hour

[sooo_cute]

Quinn raises her hand. "So I didn't get nearly enough time with my cabana boy Miguel, but he did everything he was supposed to, even if my closet isn't organized exactly right because he doesn't know which fabrics are which, but I'll forgive it. I mean, slavery's not that bad, because he didn't get beaten or anything and it was a ton of fun for me, but then I started thinking about what if I was the slave, because I wouldn't have done any of it because... ew, no. And if we're all about free will or whatever with this assignment, then it's not really real, because real slaves don't get to say 'I'm not comfortable doing this', otherwise that whole railroad thing would have been completely pointless because they could say 'I'm tired of picking cotton, I'd like to go north for a while,' you know? Because if they had free will, they wouldn't really be slaves. They'd be employees."

She thinks. "Oh, and if I'd been the slave, I totally would have sued."

Re: First Hour

[brambless.livejournal.com]

"And what about your responsibilities, Quinn? Did you ensure that your slave was fed, clothed, and provided adequate shelter?"

Re: First Hour

[sooo_cute]

"Well, he slept in my doorway. I figured, if he had enough free will to say what he wasn't comfortable doing, he could find his own clothing, and there wasn't time to starve him."


((Sorry, work.))

Re: First Hour

[brambless.livejournal.com]

Tara quirks an eyebrow over at Bridge. "He's wearing a pink bedsheet, Quinn. Did you check to make sure his needs were met?"

Re: First Hour

[mparkerceo.livejournal.com]

_{[[adores Quinn]]}

Re: First Hour

[demonbelthazor]

"I thought it was pretty easy," Belthazor said. "I liked taking care of Phoebe. She'll have to confirm this herself, but I think it helped her having me there to take care of her. She had a lot of stress this week and people she thought were her friends turned on her. But she knew that no matter what I would be there for her. She was able to relax and forget about the outside world for awhile."

Re: First Hour

[brambless.livejournal.com]

"From the way you phrase that, Belthazor, it seems like for you the exercise was more about taking care of Phoebe than her taking care of you. Do you think that's because of your personal relationship, or does it have implications for the wider subject matter?"

Re: First Hour

[demonbelthazor]

"Yeah, I'm sure our personal relationship had something to do with it. I mean, I wouldn't exactly have wanted someone like Parker living in my room, and I wouldn't have spoiled her at all. And Phoebe trusted me enough to give me control. Two strangers wouldn't have that trust to start with."

Re: First Hour

[brambless.livejournal.com]

Tara cocks her head, smiling. "And did you end up asking Phoebe to serve you in any way?"

Re: First Hour

[notstakedyet.livejournal.com]

Angelus, who was way too chipper for a vampire at that hour of the morning, sat and listened to the various conversations.

Or listened as well as he could while he doodled pictures of Darla in his notebook.

Not that he was a typical male totally distracted or anything.

Re: First Hour

[absolutesnark]

"Being the master was a bit of a challenge. It's not easy to be responsible for someone else. I imagine this is what it's like to be a parent," Piper began. "Unfortunately, I did not complete every aspect of this assignment. I ensured that my slave was fed well, but I could have done a better job with the clothing and shelter part, unless you count the third floor kitchen at the dorms as shelter."

"When he attempted to help me out in the kitchen, I admit to getting a bit frustrated, like a parent would."

[ooc: We didn't get a chance to finish rping the kitchen stuff. Assume there was much mayhem. ;)

Re: First Hour

[brambless.livejournal.com]

"I know that you were originally concerned with the responsibility of the role, Piper," Tara replies. "Do you think you would have felt more comfortable being in the submissive role?"

Re: First Hour

[absolutesnark]

Piper thinks about the question for a moment before answering. "I don't think I would have been comfortable being in the submissive role. I'm not used to taking orders from anyone. Also, I feel responsible for my own family, so being in the role where I had to be responsible for someone else was easier."

Re: First Hour

[brambless.livejournal.com]

Nodding, Tara asks, "when Shep frustrated you, how did you want to respond? Was it any different because of your roles than it would have been if you were just working as friends?"

Re: First Hour

[psycho-barbie.livejournal.com]

"It wasn't as bad as it could have been. Of course, the fact that there were the kind of enforcible safeguards that would be lacking in an actual slavery situation probably helped."

Re: First Hour

[brambless.livejournal.com]

Tara smiles a little. "Of course. The safeguards prevented abuse, which is often a component of slavery. Without that, though, can you tell me what the ethical issues with slavery are?"

Re: First Hour

[psycho-barbie.livejournal.com]

"You mean apart from the one where slaves tend to treated as property first and a person second, if at all?"

Re: First Hour

[mparkerceo.livejournal.com]

"It sucked from the word go," Parker said, folding her arms. "Mostly because my partner saw it not as an exercise in balancing responsibility or whatever the hell, but as an opportunity to try to humiliate me (http://www.livejournal.com/users/psycho_jackass/9138.html). Not to mention make his journalism project (http://www.livejournal.com/users/dbiers/9282.html?thread=88386#t88386) easier, without having to work for a real interview. I knew that serving *anyone* was going to test my temper, but Echolls pushed it beyond anything."

She shook her head. "Getting away from Echolls though, the problem for me was that there are no advantages to being a slave. I already have all the material comfort I could want. I don't like being taken care of when I don't have to be, it irritates me to be passive. It's boring. And unlike some people, I don't get how there's any kind of 'thrill' to being called some cutesy name and playing bondage games that you get *graded* on."

Re: First Hour

[brambless.livejournal.com]

Tara quirks an eyebrow. "You were playing bondage games? I don't think I need to hear this part. So ultimately, Logan was a lousy Master, because he was fundamentally uninterested in your emotional welfare. Not to mention he broke the rule about not letting this assignment interfere with other classwork." She sighs. "He made a much better slave."

"You say being passive is 'boring'. Is that the issue, or is there something more that's uncomfortable for you?"

Re: First Hour

[mparkerceo.livejournal.com]

"I'll take your word for it. I just wish someone got .jpgs of it."

"It *is* boring," Parker insists, then folds her arms, uncomfortable. "And... I don't trust anyone else to do things for me. Not unless I have to. Just being in the clinic this week was enough to make me crazy, and they're professional care-giver-doctor-types. How do you know someone *will* take care of you, just because they're supposed to? If you pay them a lot of money, at least they have a reason to stay and do it."

Re: First Hour

[bridge-carson.livejournal.com]

Bridge is still wearing Quinn's pink bedsheet as a toga.

"It wasn't too bad, I guess. I mean, I had to run around and do a lot of chores and stuff. And okay, going to the Emporium and getting all those girly things? Kinda embarrassing. But I didn't have to do anything that made me physically or mentally uncomfortable," he shrugs, "plus, now I have a toga."

Re: First Hour

[valentine-tart.livejournal.com]

Beka cleared her throat before speaking. She carefully didn't look at Angelus or at Buffy. "This assignment pushed a lot of my buttons. Because of stuff back home. I agreed to do it because Prof asked me to. She felt it'd be good for me, Buffy, and the class.

"Being a Master is far easier and far harder than I imagined. Easier because having seen the other side, I know exactly what it takes to make it not only palatable but downright sweet to be a slave. Harder for exactly the same reason. I don't like what it says about me that I know that and that I enjoyed it.

"I've heard people talk about this like it was a cutesy bondage game. It's more than that. Being a Master, truly, is more than ordering a slave around, tormenting them sexually, being serviced. It's being completely responsible for someone else's welfare. I protect people all the time. But this was different. It meant I couldn't choose when and where to protect her, and I couldn't choose who to protect her against. Even if the person was my...friend...I still had to choose Buffy over that person because she was mine.

"When you take abuse out of the equation - which you usually can't in the real world - slavery feels a lot more like hierarchy and loyalty by mutual agreement than anything else."

She shook her head. "I hope that's all right Prof. I'll answer your questions, or any one's I guess. But I don't know what else to say."

Re: First Hour

[brambless.livejournal.com]

Tara nods as Beka speaks. "Thank you, Beka. That's very well said. What if it's not by mutual agreement? If the slave has no choice, but is still well treated and well protected?"

Re: First Hour

[valentine-tart.livejournal.com]

Beka's stomach twisted. "Personally, I'd have a problem with that. If one person was taken slave by force. But there are situations when the agreement is diluted. Like debt slavery. Where the slavery isn't agreed to, but the debt was and so... Well, I guess that I'd say there's always some level of agreement. Even where there's force. Because the slave can choose to rebel, though that might mean dying.

"There might still develop loyalty and affection. And the slave may still exercise choice and free will and stay. The Master might still choose to release the slave.

"I still believe that slavery is wrong. But I understand that sometimes it might be a better alternative than a freedom not worth having."