'The Philosophers', Week 2, Thursday 2-4pm

[brambless.livejournal.com]

Last week we started to talk about Rene Descartes, who tried to prove that anything actually exists.

We're not done with him yet, folks.

Descartes was a very religious man, and was fundamentally discomforted by the concept that God might not exist, so he sought to prove the existence of God. His ethnocentrism caused him to unconsciously specify that 'God' is both all knowing, and perfectly good.

To this end, he came up with three arguments.

1. Argument by Design: Descartes said that this world is just too neatly fit together to have happened coincidentally. If you find a watch on a beach, it makes more sense to accept that someone must have made the watch than that the watch is a random product of tidal forces.

2. Transcending the Finite: Descartes himself is a finite being, with a beginning and an end, as is everything else we are able to actually observe in the universe. Descartes argued that the idea of the infinite was a signature, left by God, because only an infinite being would be able to come up with the concept of infinity.

3. Multiple Realities: There are infinite possibile realities, and amongst these, anything we can conceive of exists. We can conceive of God, ergo in one of these realities, God exists. However, because God is all powerful, God cannot be held captive by any one reality. If God exists anywhere, God exists everywhere.

Your task for the day is to choose one of these theories, and discuss it, including finding a counter argument if possible.

Comments

[shane-mcc.livejournal.com]

Shane considers the arguments, chewing idly on the end of her pen. "I don't really get the second one," she says, frowning. "I mean, it's like what we were talking about last week. I don't think just thinking about something proves you exist. But... people come up with concepts all the time, right? So does that make them infinite? Or does it make God finite, just like the rest of us?"

"I mean... I could have come up with the concept of coffee but jonesing for caffeine's not my signature," she says, one corner of her mouth quirking up in a grin.

[brambless.livejournal.com]

Tara shakes her head, smiling. "You didn't come up with the concept of coffee," she points out. "It already exists in your world. Descartes claimed that the human imagination could only mix and match things that already existed - never create something new. Do you believe the human mind can come up with a completely original thought?"

[shane-mcc.livejournal.com]

"Right," Shane says, grinning. "I just mean, if I had been the one to come up with it, y'know?"

She rubs her hand over her chin thoughtfully for a moment. "I don't know. I mean, there's that quote, right? Nothing new in the heavens or on earth? I don't know, though. A lot of the stuff we have now had to come from somewhere. I mean... peanut butter. One guy had to have that idea first, right?"

[brambless.livejournal.com]

"Someone had to invent peanut butter, yes... but the peanuts already existed. Descartes' point was that there can be nothing new on earth - and since infinity cannot be found on earth, it must be a heavenly concept." She cocks her head. "Think of it like a person blind from birth imagining colour. They can understand the world in touch and smell and sound, but if they can picture 'red', having never seen it, that concept must come from somewhere other than their experience."

[shane-mcc.livejournal.com]

Shane nods, brows furrowed as she considers. "That reminds me of a friend of mine," she murmurs. "Where she comes from, everybody's in black and white. There are just bits of color here and there. She said when she got here, seeing everything in color all the time was kinda... overwhelming."

Bringing her pen back up, Shane worries at the cap, thinking about the discussion at hand. "I'm still not sure, though... I still think it goes back to what we were saying last week, kinda. I mean, we know we're finite as humans... if God exists, did He know that He was infinite?" Pausing in her pensive chewing, Shane glances up at Tara and grins a little bashfully.

[brambless.livejournal.com]

Tara grins back. "That's a good question. Theoretically, God's all-knowing, but I've never been able to get my head around how that works. We'll get onto the knowing/good paradox with Hume, later in the term, though, so I won't hop on my soapbox now."

[dorky-broots.livejournal.com]

Broots slipped quietly into the classroom, a few minutes late.