tyler_gone: ([neu] really rather intense)
Tyler Durden ([personal profile] tyler_gone) wrote in [community profile] fandomhigh2010-02-01 07:09 am
Entry tags:

Build Your Own Philosophy, Period 2, 2/1/10

The board read:

It is better to be feared than loved, if you cannot be both. -- Niccolo Machiavelli

"Today," Tyler announced from his perch atop his desk as soon as class was assembled and the door was closed, "we're skipping ahead a thousand years. We're talking about Machiavelli." Two books -- a text and an accompanying set of SparkNotes -- were already on each desk. "He was writing in 1513, telling local rulers what they needed to do to keep power. He was also trying to tell people who wanted power how they could get it. This is one of the first books about philosophy to be flat-out practical. Machiavelli isn't looking at what God wants you to do -- he's looking at what you need to do. He's looking at how to be a wolf and not just another dog."

Yeah, Tyler had an ideological crush.

"We'll be spending a couple weeks on this book, so please take it home. Look at it. Read it. Sleep with it under your pillow if you want. Today, we're starting with one question: Do you want people to fear you, or to love you?" He paused and paced across the classroom, wishing for a cool swirly cape like Anakin's.

"We all want to be loved. We're all designed to crave love. To bask in it from the cradle, if we're lucky. Roll around in it. But people will do things out of fear that you could not get them to do out of love. So -- if you want power -- fear's the blunt instrument. Cruelty, even, if you're trying to keep a large group of people like an army on the same path. At least, if you believe Machiavelli."

"What I'm asking today is what you think. Imagine you're in charge of a country. Do you want the people to fear you first, or to love you first?" He grinned. "Automatic detention to anyone who says both. I'm not in a mood for having it both ways."

He meant that, too.

Re: Sign In [2/01]

[identity profile] pastmewrong.livejournal.com 2010-02-01 12:17 pm (UTC)(link)
Effy Stonem
not_tylerdurden: (Calvin: plotting)

Re: Sign In [2/01]

[personal profile] not_tylerdurden 2010-02-01 12:43 pm (UTC)(link)
Calvin
intraspective: (ah ha I have an idea!)

Re: Sign In [2/01]

[personal profile] intraspective 2010-02-01 01:00 pm (UTC)(link)
Yamanaka Ino
intraspective: (badass glasses girl)

Re: Discussion [2/01]

[personal profile] intraspective 2010-02-01 01:04 pm (UTC)(link)
"Love," Ino said promptly. "If you can get it and keep it then you've got their loyalty forever. People'll do anything for love, out of love, to protect what it is that they love and it's less likely that they'll betray you if you're loved than if you're feared."

This was not to say that she thought controlling someone by fear was a bad idea, exactly, but it wasn't her first choice either.

"Feared rulers got to watch their back from the inside and outside. Loved ones can expect most of the threats to come from the outside only." Most. Not all.
trigons_child: (Black and white serious)

Re: Sign In [2/01]

[personal profile] trigons_child 2010-02-01 01:26 pm (UTC)(link)
Raven

Re: Sign In [2/01]

[identity profile] blondecanary.livejournal.com 2010-02-01 02:17 pm (UTC)(link)
Dinah Lance

Re: Sign In [2/01]

[identity profile] joan-notjane.livejournal.com 2010-02-01 02:45 pm (UTC)(link)
Joan Girardi

Re: General Class Stuff [2/01]

[identity profile] joan-notjane.livejournal.com 2010-02-01 02:47 pm (UTC)(link)
Joan listened to the lecture and glanced at the back cover of the book. For some reason, this topic was making her mildly uncomfortable.

Re: Discussion [2/01]

[identity profile] joan-notjane.livejournal.com 2010-02-01 02:55 pm (UTC)(link)
"Love," Joan said. "Because love implies they respect me and that means I'm probably a good ruler. I think people who rule through fear are bullies who only get where they are because they're stronger than the people around them."

Re: Talk to the TAs [2/01]

[identity profile] joan-notjane.livejournal.com 2010-02-01 03:00 pm (UTC)(link)
Joan was around if anyone wanted to talk.

Re: Sign In [2/01]

[identity profile] new-to-liirness.livejournal.com 2010-02-01 03:04 pm (UTC)(link)
Liir Thropp

Re: Talk to the TAs [2/01]

[identity profile] new-to-liirness.livejournal.com 2010-02-01 03:04 pm (UTC)(link)
Liir was around as well. Whether you feared or loved him, however, he left up to the student.

Re: Sign In [2/01]

[identity profile] onlysmokesnics.livejournal.com 2010-02-01 03:05 pm (UTC)(link)
Hayley Fitzpatrick

Re: General Class Stuff [2/01]

[identity profile] new-to-liirness.livejournal.com 2010-02-01 03:08 pm (UTC)(link)
Liir considered the text, and the teacher's comments. The whole question really was ridiculously relevant to him as few classes were. Feared or loved?

The problem was that Liir couldn't really see anyone doing either.

He wasn't an intimidating person by nature. Oh he could storm and scowl and look a bit grumpy, but he didn't have a Presence that people would respond to like that. He could grump and growl all he wanted and the main result would be that he was grumpy.

On the other hand, love was almost entirely out of the question. While he had accepted that some might love him, he was well aware that most did not. Most might pity him, or find him tolerable, but love, and the kind of love which he knew might be useful politically, was utterly beyond him.

...which gave him rather a lot to think on, all said.

Re: Discussion [2/01]

[identity profile] onlysmokesnics.livejournal.com 2010-02-01 03:09 pm (UTC)(link)
Hayley just shook her head. "I'd want them to love me," she said. "But I bet... most likely, people would end up scared, if I was in charge of a country. I'm not sure I'd be good at it."

Re: Discussion [2/01]

[identity profile] new-to-liirness.livejournal.com 2010-02-01 03:16 pm (UTC)(link)
Liir, of course, had to be difficult.

"Personally, I'd want them to think I'm competent.

"Competency doesn't come with the whims of love or fear. A man can love you one day and scorn you the next; as for fear, it's finite. People mostly want their lives to go on the same way as they did the day before, however, and a competent man can do that for them.

"They might occasionally curse a competent man for a mistake, but never overthrow him unless that mistake is utterly unforgivable... and then, how competent was he really? A competent man does not rely on his people's love or fear to drive them in battle (or otherwise, really), but their own self-interest... and is there any stronger drive in a thinking creature of any stripe?"

Someone had 'budding bureaucrat' tattooed on him since birth *cough*
not_tylerdurden: (Calvin: taking notes)

Re: General Class Stuff [2/01]

[personal profile] not_tylerdurden 2010-02-01 04:06 pm (UTC)(link)
Calvin doodled on his notepad as he listened with one ear.

He already knew how completely unintimidating he was, so it wasn't like he had to think that hard about his answer.
not_tylerdurden: (Calvin: yeeeah...about that)

Re: Discussion [2/01]

[personal profile] not_tylerdurden 2010-02-01 04:14 pm (UTC)(link)
"I'd go with loved," Calvin said. "It's not like a cult of personality can't lead people into doing horrible things just as well as fear does."

Re: Sign In [2/01]

[identity profile] morpherboy.livejournal.com 2010-02-01 05:15 pm (UTC)(link)
Marco

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