Ethics [Tuesday, January 26]

[sith_happened]

Anakin, reflecting on his conversation with Arthur in the last class, had a bad feeling about how the topic of pride might go over today. It didn't mean he was going to change topics, of course: Anakin enjoyed beating his head into things.

"Master Lao Tzu, a great Chinese Master of this world said centuries ago that 'Pride attaches undue importance to the superiority of one's status in the eyes of others; and shame is fear of humiliation at one's inferior status in the estimation of others. When one sets his heart on being highly esteemed, and achieves such rating, then he is automatically involved in fear of losing his status.'"

He smiled. "Lao Tzu thought in similar patterns as those who taught me. He has the mind of a Jedi. Pride--or hubris, if you speak Latin--in the Catholic religious tradition of this planet, is considered the original and most serious of the deadly sins. In order to deal ethically with other people, we need to acknowledge this very human flaw in ourselves and others. We want to believe that we are different, better than everyone around us." His gaze sharpened. "We're not. Everything is connected. You, me, the rocks outside, the deer in the preserve, the beings who live across the causeway, the trillions who make up the multiverse around us. Take pride in being yourself, certainly, and in what you can do," he concluded. "But don't for a moment believe that who you are makes you more than the person sitting next to you. Because that kind of pride is where you make your first mistake."

Not that he'd ever made such a mistake.

...Often.

"So, learning to swallow our pride and admit we're not quite as special or brilliant as we thought we were is never a fun process," he continued. "How high do the stakes have to be before we'll admit we've made a mistake or have been fooled?"

Comments

Sign in [1/26]

[sith_happened]

With attitude.

Re: Sign in [1/26]

[iknowstuff.livejournal.com]

Layla Miller

Re: Sign in [1/26]

[imonscholarship.livejournal.com]

Dan Humphrey

Listen to the lecture [1/26]

[sith_happened]

Take notes, pass notes, pass out...

Anakin will not appreciate the last two options.

Re: Listen to the lecture [1/26]

[wantstocheer.livejournal.com]

Claire took a few notes and doodled a bit in the margins.

Answer the discussion question [1/26]

[sith_happened]

"How high do the stakes have to be before we'll admit we've made a mistake or have been fooled?"

Most people wouldn't have to, say, watch someone destroy a democratic republic that lasted for a thousand generations, but your mileage may vary!

Re: Answer the discussion question [1/26]

[iknowstuff.livejournal.com]

"I don't get fooled," Layla frowned. "I just get surprised. And if it's something I don't know then I'm usually screwed. Which means it's time for damage control."

Re: Answer the discussion question [1/26]

[sith_happened]

Anakin nodded, looking thoughtful. "Do you think this is an especially dangerous vice for those who can see the future to fall into?"

Re: Answer the discussion question [1/26]

[imonscholarship.livejournal.com]

"Some people are never willing to admit they're wrong." Him, for instance. "Pride's a pretty hard thing to let go of."

Re: Answer the discussion question [1/26]

[sith_happened]

"So how far would, say, you have to be pushed to admit that you might have been wrong?" Anakin asked.

Re: Answer the discussion question [1/26]

[therewaslife]

"I think there'd have to be something incredibly important at stake for someone to realize they might be wrong or they might have made a mistake," said Bod after a moment's thought. "If I leave milk out and it spoils, it'll be gross but it's not going to affect my pride. If I endanger someone because I thought I could handle a situation I'd never been in before, then my pride becomes damaged. Even then, I think recovering from that can be a fairly quick thing."

Re: Answer the discussion question [1/26]

[sith_happened]

"Really?" Anakin replied. "You think a blow to the ego like that would be easy to bounce back from?"

Re: Answer the discussion question [1/26]

[likes_scoundrels]

"A true leader should never be unwilling to admit a mistake, particularly when the lives of their people are on the line," Leia said. "They're more important than personal pride." Oh, idealism.

Re: Answer the discussion question [1/26]

[sith_happened]

Anakin's smile was a little wry. "And can you name more than two politicians who would fall into that category?"

Re: Answer the discussion question [1/26]

[wantstocheer.livejournal.com]

"For some people," Peter, "they need to be catastrophic," Claire said. "But maybe not always because of pride. Sometimes it's because they are naive enough to believe the best in everyone else."

Re: Answer the discussion question [1/26]

[bitchprince]

"You can't correct a mistake unless you admit to it," Arthur said, shifting a little in his seat.

He was trying not to think about unicorns.

Re: Answer the discussion question [1/26]

[svetocha-blooms.livejournal.com]

"Isn't it more important to not make the mistake in the first place? By knowing your limits and not trying to exceed them?" Dru asked.

Re: Answer the discussion question [1/26]

[puppy_fair]

Zack chewed on his lip a little before answering.

"Admitting that I've made a mistake is easy enough," he said, after a moment of hesitation. "Protecting my honor means that I have to be willing to own up to the things that I've done wrong, and to do everything in my power to make up for those mistakes."

He shrugged a little, rubbing the back of his head. Fidgeting time was now, apparently.

"I think what I find even more difficult than owning my missteps... Is actually realizing when I've made them at all. Sometimes it's pretty obvious, you know? But other times..." This was not an easy class, darn it. "How does a SOLDIER, any soldier, really, know that the battles he's fighting are the right ones?"

Re: Answer the discussion question [1/26]

[bitchy_smurf]

Illyria? Look uncomfortable?

"One's own death, in some cases," she said finally. She wasn't unwilling to expand upon that, and had volunteered the circumstances more freely in other contexts, but. Pride. That, she still had.

Re: Answer the discussion question [1/26]

[noteviltwin.livejournal.com]

"We should be able to admit we've made a mistake as soon as it's pointed out to us," Andy said. "But you're right, many -- probably most -- people don't. Maybe it would be easier for everyone to do so if people weren't so quick to jump on admitted mistakes. Resist saying I told you so. Or asking how you could be that stupid. Or whatever. If people don't admit to mistakes because they fear loss of esteem, maybe society needs to change so making a mistake doesn't mean you're seen as something less."

Talk to the TA

[sith_happened]

Hello, Griff!

Re: Talk to the TA

[youcantfollow.livejournal.com]

Making mistakes and getting fooled? Check. Admitting it had happened? Well, that was a whole other situation entirely. Griff would be over here listening for a while.

Talk to Anakin [1/26]

[sith_happened]

Hello, Anakin!

OOC

[sith_happened]

As always, it's a discussion-based class. Feel free to bounce off each other's threads.

Re: OOC

[wantstocheer.livejournal.com]

Anakin is more than welcome to pick up on Claire's thoughts if you like.