http://glasses-justice.livejournal.com/ ([identity profile] glasses-justice.livejournal.com) wrote in [community profile] fandomhigh2010-01-19 04:16 pm
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Concepts of Justice and The Law [Period 4, Class #3, Jan 19]

"This week," Alex said, "we're going to be discussing something known as mens rea. In Latin, the full expression is actus non facit reum nisi mens sit rea -- the act does not make one guilty unless the mind is also guilty. In other words, we're going to talk about a specific kind of intent."

This was more a procedural issue than last week's death penalty discussion, but Alex hoped the students would listen further than 'oh, no, Latin' and realize the issue was actually fairly intriguing. At least, if you were a law geek, anyway.

"What does it mean to have a guilty mind?" Alex lifted her shoulders. "In most cases, it means the ability to form the intent to commit those actions. If a toddler is playing with a loaded gun, and shoots a sibling, the situation is a grim tragedy. If a sixteen-year-old does the same thing, it would still be a tragedy, but many would consider the teenager old enough to be held accountable. The teenager should know that guns are dangerous, while the toddler would not comprehend that.

"Age isn't the only qualifier. A man in the grip of paranoid schizophrenic delusions shoots his neighbor because he thinks his neighbor is an alien sent to kill him. Should he be held accountable? Plenty would say no. What if the man had previously undergone treatment for schizophrenia, but elected to stop taking his medication? It could be assumed then that his lucid self knew the risks and chose to accept them. The matter becomes murkier if the schizophrenic was never previously violent, and had no reason to think he would be this time.

"Mental capability can also refer to someone with certain disabilities. A severely retarded woman playing with a loaded gun may not be any more capable of understanding the possible consequences than the toddler above. So what about someone mildly retarded? What about a person who is less intelligent than the average? If a man receives a head injury and loses the ability to control his impulses, then robs a liquor store at gunpoint, what sort of punishment should he receive?

"If a woman drives herself home from a bar, drunk, and runs over a pedestrian, few would argue that she should be found guilty of a crime. What if her drink was 'spiked,' and she did not know that she was intoxicated? What if she was drinking at home, but suddenly needed to drive a friend to the hospital? Her intentions matter.

"Mens rea, in its essence, is asking us who was able to form the intent to cause harm -- or chose to act in a way that showed a clear indifference to the result of those actions. So let's talk about intent."
momslilassassin: ([plot] Merbiwan)

Re: Sign In - JST03

[personal profile] momslilassassin 2010-01-19 09:23 pm (UTC)(link)
Ben Skywalker
glacial_queen: (I need a drink)

Re: Sign In - JST03

[personal profile] glacial_queen 2010-01-19 09:23 pm (UTC)(link)
Karla
momslilassassin: ([neg] brooding is a family thing)

Re: During the Lecture - JST03

[personal profile] momslilassassin 2010-01-19 09:23 pm (UTC)(link)
Ben was so caught up in the lecture that he almost forgot to take notes.
glacial_queen: (Class-Homework)

Re: During the Lecture - JST03

[personal profile] glacial_queen 2010-01-19 09:24 pm (UTC)(link)
Karla sadly put her fiddle away took notes, occasionally chewing on the end of her pen as she thought.
glacial_queen: (Class-Paying Attention)

Re: Talk to the TAs - JST03

[personal profile] glacial_queen 2010-01-19 09:25 pm (UTC)(link)
Karla was here and, as usual, was endlessly fascinated by the topic.
momslilassassin: ([neu] eye closeup)

Re: Discussion: Mens Rea - JST03

[personal profile] momslilassassin 2010-01-19 09:29 pm (UTC)(link)
"I think it depends on how the fifteen year old has been trained," Ben said. "I've been handling a weapon since I was nine years old and know exactly what it can do. Heck, I knew at five."
momslilassassin: ([neg] listening)

Re: Case Study: Honor - JST03

[personal profile] momslilassassin 2010-01-19 09:32 pm (UTC)(link)
Ben wondered darkly if what Jaina had done to Jacen would fall under the same sort of category.

"Does the legal system he's being tried under allow for honor killings?" Ben asked.
glacial_queen: (Solemn)

Re: Discussion: Mens Rea - JST03

[personal profile] glacial_queen 2010-01-19 09:33 pm (UTC)(link)
Even as she began talking, Karla knew that it would probably be better for her to just keep her damn mouth shut. This was probably going to turn into one of those 'Karla's world is crazy' things that had been happening so often.

But when had she ever let her better judgment keep her quiet?

"There are several different scenarios back home when one's mentality prevents them from being held accountable for their actions," Karla said slowly. And kind of quietly. "The first and most obvious is when the person is mad, as you've said. Then there's rut. The other major scenario is when someone rises to the killing edge. The most important function of Protocol exists to prevent pushing someone to that point and to teach others how to behave when near someone has gotten there, in order to minimize injury and damage."

And was the main reason murder wasn't illegal.
Edited 2010-01-19 21:34 (UTC)

Re: Case Study: Honor - JST03

[identity profile] blondecanary.livejournal.com 2010-01-19 09:34 pm (UTC)(link)
Dinah frowned. Okay, scowled. "Did he commit this crime in the U.S.? Does he know the laws of the U.S.? Does he speak the language? Then he's guilty guilty guilty." She shook her head. "If he really believes it's right and virtuous, then he should be willing to take the full consequences of killing her and go to jail."

Re: Sign In - JST03

[identity profile] blondecanary.livejournal.com 2010-01-19 09:35 pm (UTC)(link)
Dinah Lance

Re: During the Lecture - JST03

[identity profile] blondecanary.livejournal.com 2010-01-19 09:36 pm (UTC)(link)
Dinah was taking notes, in particular that legal phrase, and started making a little Chart of Accountability in the middle of it.

Age, Sanity, Awareness, Intent.... Hunh. Now. Where would Azula fall on those scales? Hmph.
glacial_queen: (Class-Lecture)

Re: Case Study: Honor - JST03

[personal profile] glacial_queen 2010-01-19 09:36 pm (UTC)(link)
"And if there are, does his punishment fit the severity of what she did?" Karla seconded. "Even if the necessity of 'restoring honor' is allowed, if he has pushed what is acceptable under the law, he has knowingly committed a crime."

Re: Sign In - JST03

[identity profile] notqueenyet.livejournal.com 2010-01-19 09:39 pm (UTC)(link)
Aravis

Re: Discussion: Mens Rea - JST03

[identity profile] blondecanary.livejournal.com 2010-01-19 09:39 pm (UTC)(link)
"Well, around here, possessed or under a spell counts as a mitigating circumstance," Dinah pointed out. "Not having self-control. And to a certain point, yes, if they drank or drugged themselves, then went out in public, they need to take responsibility for that."

She was quiet a minute, considering the second parts of those questions. "For a fifteen-year-old, I think it would vary from case to case. The same way it would for an adult. Ten or five, no. Not around here. They don't understand, and they don't have the self-control when they do understand, and there's no way anyone should let them have access to a gun."

Re: Sign In - JST03

[identity profile] rocksthescarf.livejournal.com 2010-01-19 09:40 pm (UTC)(link)
Chuck Bass

Re: During the Lecture - JST03

[identity profile] rocksthescarf.livejournal.com 2010-01-19 09:42 pm (UTC)(link)
Chuck wasn't exactly taking notes but he was paying attention for once.

Re: Case Study: Honor - JST03

[identity profile] notqueenyet.livejournal.com 2010-01-19 09:49 pm (UTC)(link)
"He is guilty, though I do think that there should be consideration of his motive," Aravis said softly. "We need to know if he's being tried in the United States and if he understands this country's legal system. At home, such a thing would be barbaric, but not out of the question. Such things are not uncommon in Calormen, and they go unpunished."
momslilassassin: ([neg] lipbiting)

Re: Case Study: Honor - JST03

[personal profile] momslilassassin 2010-01-19 09:49 pm (UTC)(link)
"Right," Ben said. "If she started a blood feud or something, that's different than, say, shoplifting."

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