chosehumanity: (mitchell: when I died)
chosehumanity ([personal profile] chosehumanity) wrote in [community profile] fandomhigh2009-09-08 12:09 pm
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World Wars in the Media, Tuesday

"War," Mitchell started, once everyone had pooled into the class. "This week, we're not going to get to any of the good bits just yet, so buckle up. Rather, we're going to talk about the First World War, or as it was known in the early 20th century, the Great War, which began the cycle of conflicts that ravaged the century. It started rather inauspiciously with alliances, an attempt to keep nations from war. Except tied into these alliances was a growing sense of pride in countries that were finally solid, and united. A powderkeg, as historians like to call it. I prefer 'massive executive bollocksing', myself." He pulled a face, like it had been a personal slight to himself, but brushed that off quickly. "A massive cobweb of alliances was formed during the late 19th century. Germany, Austria-Hungary and Russia on one end, although Russia dropped out, and Italy took its place. Italy, for their part, secretly got involved with France in case Austria-Hungary decided to throw a fit about some territorial issues."

He took a breath. "Are you following this so far? Good. It gets a little complicated." He gestured in two directions to get that point across. "France also allied themselves with Russia, and Britain, only just emerging out of isolation, decided it wanted more assurance against the giant that had become Germany - so they sought alliances with France, and with Japan. These were the major lines in the web, but there were any number of smaller ones as well: Serbia, for example, found themselves under Russia's protection..."

He mimed a gun with one hand. "All that tension, all those alliances, everyone fearing each other's growth while praising their own, nations looking for revenge or a reason to reassert the dominance of a fading empire-- it was a miracle they had as few war as it was-- all that was needed in the end was one bullet, shattering that peace - and two poor heads." He pressed a button on the laptop in front of him, playing a short video. "Archduke Franz Ferdinand was visiting Serbia with his wife for a formal visit of state. Probably glad to get away from the tensions of home, the poor bastard, he hadn't made the other rulers back home very happy with any of his plans. He's sitting there, in his car, minding his own business, when suddenly his wife collapses on him. Turns out he's bleeding from the mouth, a messy, slow death - his friend von Harrach said he kept talking as he died. A political assassination on Serbian ground, by a Serbian nationalist, pissed off that the Austrians had been barging all over Serbia as of recently."

He was gesturing as he talked. "You can see where this is going," he said, "Austria-Hungary decided to attack Serbia to reassert their dominance, using Ferdinand's death as a pretext. Russia jumped in to defend Serbia, Germany decided to take that as an assault on Austria-Hungary, France decided to take that as an assault on Russia, Britain went in to help France and save Belgium, which had just been invaded by the Germans, which meant the British colonies got involved..." He mimed a collapsing cardhouse. "It's actually kind of beautiful in its simplicity and its complication - like tipping dominoes of history." ...But anyway. "The United States declared neutrality until the Germans pushed their luck, and the Italians kept their bottoms to themselves by claiming they had only ever signed up for a defensive war - and then promptly dropped the ball by joining the opposite side instead."

His mouth curled up. "And while the British were involved in the war, the Irish toiled away on their independence," he said, "Although that didn't keep some of us from enlisting anyway. We had our own regiments in the New British Army... Like most parts of the First World War, that wound up being a letdown and altogether dirtier and less glorious than anyone had anticipated..." He looked thoughtful. "But we'll be talking about that last week. Anyway, I've been talking more than enough," he segued. "Here, you'll find a handout of who declared war on whom. There's been lots of speculation of how far back the roots of this war went, and I couldn't tell you for certain if I tried. Instead, I'd like you to look at how the war was reported in the British newspapers at the time. What kind of slant do you see? What kind of information do they pick up on? What seemed to be the British approach to the First World War when they went to pick up arms?" He tapped the couch under his feet. "Pair up!"

[[ and OCD is a go! ]]

Re: Pair Up and Discuss

[identity profile] blondecanary.livejournal.com 2009-09-08 06:08 pm (UTC)(link)
Dinah grinned. "Too true. Although Mitchell's pretty laid back. We should at least mention them?" She grinned. "Well, one thing that I noticed that was weird wasn't so much the headlines, but in the articles. The writer was calling Germany and Great Britain 'she' like they were people. Really personalizing it."
intraspective: (world revolves around us)

Re: Pair Up and Discuss

[personal profile] intraspective 2009-09-08 07:09 pm (UTC)(link)
She tugged at her hair.

"Aren't they, in a way?" Ino asked. "I mean, it's a little weird personifying countries, but they're the 'motherland' and all of that so, I don't know, calling them 'she' makes good sense? And would foster a stronger connection."

Re: Pair Up and Discuss

[identity profile] blondecanary.livejournal.com 2009-09-08 07:19 pm (UTC)(link)
"Hunh. Hmmm. I guess they are. I haven't seen them talked about like that before," Dinah said, thinking aloud. "But the war we're in now isn't so personal? Well, we're not under attack, you know? Not since 9/11." She frowned. "But I guess it seems obvious now, maybe that's why they don't write like that any more." She tilted her head. "Does your press write stuff like this, when there's a war or an attack back home?"
intraspective: (the world is around me)

Re: Pair Up and Discuss

[personal profile] intraspective 2009-09-08 07:28 pm (UTC)(link)
"...we're in a war?" Bravo, Ino, way to pay attention to things. "Oh! That's that War on Terrorism thing, right?"

A pause.

"And--uh, I guess or newspapers aren't that great at stuff like that." She tugged her hair. "The civilian lords only know bare facts 'bout stuff, and papers get not much more. If you want to know what's going on you'd best be a ninja, or related to one--and even then everything's got different levels of classified."

Re: Pair Up and Discuss

[identity profile] blondecanary.livejournal.com 2009-09-08 07:35 pm (UTC)(link)
"Yeah, that one," Dinah said, lips quirking sideways. "In Iraq and Afghanistan. So, yeah, if you don't watch the news, you mostly wouldn't know."

She had to ask. "Do you pull on your hair when you're thinking hard? You do that when we're talking serious stuff." Back on the subject, she looked thoughtful. "That sounds more like some countries in Europe, and South America. It's not a totally free press there, although I know some people--" Hello, Priestly. "--who'd argue we don't have one here, either."
intraspective: (sit down it's a talk)

Re: Pair Up and Discuss

[personal profile] intraspective 2009-09-08 07:49 pm (UTC)(link)
Ino was epic at avoiding the television, really.

She blinked, and shrugged. "I guess I do," she admitted. "It's like, a thing--focus on the subject at hand, sort of thing, you know? And, well, it's only with the military stuff that we really bother interfering with the news. Otherwise, it's free game."

"'Less it's a mission that spills over to the news, 'cause then they get a story fed to them, or the mission is swung in such a way that shinobi involvement ain't noticeable."

Re: Pair Up and Discuss

[identity profile] blondecanary.livejournal.com 2009-09-08 07:52 pm (UTC)(link)
"I just wondered." Dinah nodded, thinking. "So that's like the black-outs of info during World War I, or even now, sometimes, overseas. So the other side doesn't know what's going on. Do you guys have editorials too? People second-guessing the military leaders?"
intraspective: (wtf are you wearing?!)

Re: Pair Up and Discuss

[personal profile] intraspective 2009-09-08 08:00 pm (UTC)(link)
"Nooot that I know of?" Ino said, bemused at that idea. "Seriously? People write down their thoughts and stuff?"

Re: Pair Up and Discuss

[identity profile] blondecanary.livejournal.com 2009-09-08 08:02 pm (UTC)(link)
"A lot. A lot a lot," Dinah said, sounding weary. "Or you can watch them on FOX news or CNN or MSNBC. It gets confusing. But you can hear more sides of the issue than you ever imagined existed that way. Not that all of them make sense."
intraspective: (are you REALLY sure?)

Re: Pair Up and Discuss

[personal profile] intraspective 2009-09-08 08:03 pm (UTC)(link)
"Why?"

Ino was confused.

"I mean--they don't get a say, right?"

Re: Pair Up and Discuss

[identity profile] blondecanary.livejournal.com 2009-09-08 08:09 pm (UTC)(link)
"They get, hmm, kind of an indirect say." Dinah frowned, then brightened, pointing to the paper they'd been reading. "You know our leaders are elected, right? Once every couple years? Or four years, here. The civilian leaders don't give day-to-day orders, but they make the big decisions that the military leaders have to follow. Like whether to go to war, or not."
intraspective: (pretty armband)

Re: Pair Up and Discuss

[personal profile] intraspective 2009-09-08 08:16 pm (UTC)(link)
She nodded.

"Like how Obama was a big deal 'cause he's black and won," Ino had managed to notice that, yes! "So--he's got to give the green light for war to happen, but the military is the one that enforces it, right?"

She contemplated that.

"It seems a bit--different, I guess. 'Cause, like, we're in the Fire Country, right? And we're the major military force, so we handle most of it, but there's also the Fire Lord, who handles most of the civilian stuff, see? So when war happens, we just sort of... let him know."

A pause.

"That's when war is declared on us," she noted. "'Cause we'd lose business if we went 'round expanding his territory without his consent. But he could, like, nag and go 'destroy these people for me' and we'd be all 'sure, but you got to pay mission prices' so..."

Re: Pair Up and Discuss

[identity profile] blondecanary.livejournal.com 2009-09-08 08:23 pm (UTC)(link)
Dinah ... sort of followed this, but only through virtue of previous talks with Hinata and Ino about this, so she nodded, trying to keep track. "Because being soldiers-for-hire is like, your main export, kind of. Right?" And hey, no need to get moral on it this time. She still didn't quite get how that worked so anybody had time to grow food or do anything else, so she didn't feel like she could. And that wasn't the point. Dinah made a mental note to ask about that when the talk came back around to it.

"So, yeah. Elections. And the press, they can really influence those. They can't lie, not outright, or they get fired or sued. Or even sent to jail, if they totally make up stuff. But they can slant it, or leave some stuff out, so the public will agree with them, one way or the other. Whoever owns the paper or network can encourage it one way or the other, too." She pointed to one of the articles in front of them. "This guy really wants the British subjects to support the war, so he's personalizing it so anyone who reads it feels like they're under attack already. Even though the war hadn't gotten that far yet."
intraspective: (the world is around me)

Re: Pair Up and Discuss

[personal profile] intraspective 2009-09-08 08:42 pm (UTC)(link)
"Pretty much, yeah," she said, glancing over the articles again. "Guess that makes sense, in a way, they're doing exactly what we do when we feed stories with a certain spin. It's just the topics that are a bit different. Do you think he's wrong to get them riled up? To me it seems like a smart thing--that way there's less to prepare for later."

Re: Pair Up and Discuss

[identity profile] blondecanary.livejournal.com 2009-09-08 08:48 pm (UTC)(link)
"Kind of. They're just more subtle about it. Maybe 'cause they're thinking long-term elections, not short-term damage control." Dinah perched her chin on her hand, and frowned, thinking. "I don't know. I think in this case he's right, because the Germans really did want to conquer all of Europe. So no point in talking peace when they'd already invaded places. And maybe it helped convinced us, the Americans, to get in a little sooner, although Mitchell's right, we wanted to stay out of it as long as we could." She bit her lip. "But maybe that's 20-20 hindsight. Since we know how it came out."
intraspective: (school uniform)

Re: Pair Up and Discuss

[personal profile] intraspective 2009-09-08 11:23 pm (UTC)(link)
"Yeah," Ino said, making a face. "That's the problem, definitely. We can say for certain what they were doing 'cause we can see the results of it and guess from there. I'd guess morale and preparation time, though."

Re: Pair Up and Discuss

[identity profile] blondecanary.livejournal.com 2009-09-08 11:37 pm (UTC)(link)
"Yeah, that would be mine. This bit about Parliament voting to give them a war budget in five minutes-- I mean, if you were a British subject, you'd feel like it was a good idea to sign up then too, if your leaders were that sure about it." Dinah looked meditative. "Whereas the war we're fighting now has always had detractors in Congress, and they fight about the budget for it all the time now. But it wasn't like that eight years ago." The anniversary was coming up on Friday, actually. Scary thought.
intraspective: (cute smile in b&w)

Re: Pair Up and Discuss

[personal profile] intraspective 2009-09-08 11:39 pm (UTC)(link)
"It's a matter of trust," she decided. "'Cause, see, if you see your leaders, 'cause they're supposed to be the ones who know what they're doing, making up their minds and having a plan, then you can put faith in them. In a way, I guess, people arguing and debating and such it just shows that--there's a lack of trust, in a way."

Re: Pair Up and Discuss

[identity profile] blondecanary.livejournal.com 2009-09-08 11:46 pm (UTC)(link)
"Well, yeah." Dinah had to agree about that. "Which, in our case, and with as many times as the government and military has screwed up, is justified. We need the press to keep and eye on them and point out their screw-ups, or they won't fix them. In World War I, I think the press made the right call and supported the government in England, but there's been other wars where they weren't really thinking it through." She looked thoughtful, then said, "Not as criticism, but can I ask-- does anyone keep an eye on your military leaders? Or do they check up on each other, to see that they're doing their jobs right?"
intraspective: (slip past defense)

Re: Pair Up and Discuss

[personal profile] intraspective 2009-09-08 11:53 pm (UTC)(link)
That one was going to require some thinking.

"Mmm," she said, tilting her head. "Each Hokage has to be chosen by the council, and then the Jounin get to confirm the choice--if they don't like them they don't stick 'round 'cause the Jounin are the real decision makers." Ino laughed briefly. "'Cause you don't want to piss off your powerhouses, yeah? So if the Jounin believe in the Hokage, they tend to go on pretty much on their own when it comes to battle decisions. The council can advise, either for or not, but the final say is up to them."

A pause.

"Well," she conceded, "at least 'till the Jounin get sick of them messing up and have them assassinated." Politics were cheery, really.

Re: Pair Up and Discuss

[identity profile] blondecanary.livejournal.com 2009-09-08 11:58 pm (UTC)(link)
"Soooo." Dinah had to stop there again, and admit, "I don't know half those words. Right, so is the council also civilian? Or is it just the main military council? And what's a hokage, and a jounin?" She also blinked. "They can't just fire them and make them resign? Yeesh."
intraspective: (smile politely)

Re: Pair Up and Discuss

[personal profile] intraspective 2009-09-09 12:20 am (UTC)(link)
"Hokage is the title of our leader," she said, grinning slightly apologetically at that. Ino was bad, sometimes, at translating things over. "It means 'Fire Shadow' 'cause we're the Fire Country's ninja, so we work from the shadows, in theory. Hokage-sama is always considered the most powerful ninja in the village, both in political strength and physical strength. You've got to have both to be nominated. Jounin is... a rank."

Ino pulled out a piece of paper and scribbled a quick chart out. "Jounin is the highest rank that a regular shinobi can be," she explained, "I'm technically a Genin, but with skill enough for a Chuunin--I just haven't taken the exam to be promoted. But Jounin are those that, well, make badass look easy." Oh dear.

"And firing them--doesn't work. There's too many secrets that they'd be privy to. The Third, Sandaime-sama, was a Hokage, but he retired in favour of the Fourth, 'cause he was getting old and tired. But he was well loved when he left the office and his loyalty was never in doubt. Otherwise... it's a job for life, pretty much."

Re: Pair Up and Discuss

[identity profile] blondecanary.livejournal.com 2009-09-09 12:34 am (UTC)(link)
Which, from what Dinah could figure out of her original question, meant that the guy who was similar to Commander-in-Chief was there for life, but all his Colonels were watching him to make sure he didn't mess up. "Okay. I think I get that. Our generals, our admirals, they all retire after a certain age. They may know secrets, but they're charged never to reveal them, so... yeah. No reason to assassinate them." She cocked her head. "And there's a term limit on the presidency, so he's only in charge eight years at most. He's actually Commander-in-Chief of all the armed forces." Was what they were talking about like being a CIA chief? No, they got to retire too.

"It's the same for all our other military and civil government stuff. They retire or quit or whatever. There's always conspiracy theories when someone dies unexpectedly, but mostly they die natural deaths. Sooo, we have reporters, making sure the population knows how well they're doing their jobs. Since they can't elect military, they earn their rank, but the very top spots are appointed by civilians. And the civilians need watching, and are elected by everyone else." She let out a breath. "Make sense?" Dinah made a face. "Which... you probably didn't even need to know, but yeah."
intraspective: (here we are)

Re: Pair Up and Discuss

[personal profile] intraspective 2009-09-09 12:37 am (UTC)(link)
...Ino had gotten distracted by making her chart, okay?

"...not really," she said, after listening to that. "Wouldn't the populace know that their jobs are being done right from the cause and effect sort of thing."

It would help, really, if Ino ever managed to wrap her mind around just how large a space they were talking about. Her world was way smaller.

Re: Pair Up and Discuss

[identity profile] blondecanary.livejournal.com 2009-09-09 12:41 am (UTC)(link)
"... I don't think so?" Dinah blinked. "There's just too many officers in charge. And screw ups are easy to hide on a battlefield." She paused, thinking about it. "Ino, how many people," she pointed to the chart, "are in your military-ninja?"

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