atreideslioness: (Fremen in the Garden of Eden)
Ghanima Atreides ([personal profile] atreideslioness) wrote in [community profile] fandomhigh2009-07-26 10:55 pm

Destiny & Free Will, Week IV [Monday, Period 4]

Ghanima had handwavily sent out a notice to meet down by the pond again, since it seemed almost criminal to have class indoors during the summer.

"Good afternoon!" she said cheerily. "Hopefully you all aren't too tired from your move back to the dorms, as we have lots to discuss today."

"The question of free will is if, and in what sense, rational agents exercise control over their actions and decisions.  Addressing this question requires understanding the relationship between freedom and cause, and determining whether the laws of nature are causally deterministic. Sounds fun, hrm?"  

"The principle of free will has religious, ethical, and scientific implications. For example, in the religious realm, free will may imply that an omnipotent divinity does not assert its power over individual will and choices. In the ethical sense, it may imply that individuals can be held morally accountable for their actions. And last, but far from least, in the scientific arena it may imply that the actions of the body, including the brain and the mind, are not wholly determined by physical causality. Needless to say, the question of free will has been a central issue since the beginning of philosophical thought."

"Society generally holds people responsible for their actions, if law and order prevail, and will say that they deserve praise or blame for what they do." Ghanima shook her head, mouth pinched in distaste. "However, many believe that moral responsibility requires free will. If you have no free will, then how can you be held responsible for anything? Thus, another important issue in the debate on free will is whether individuals are ever morally responsible for their actions—and, if so, in what sense."

"There is an example that those of you native to this planet and era may be familiar with," she said, walking forward to being writing on the board.  "St. Paul, in his Epistle to the Romans addresses the question of moral responsibility as follows: "Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?" If you follow Paul's line of reasoning, individuals can still be dishonoured for their acts even though those acts were ultimately completely determined by God."

"Of course, no matter the rules one chooses to abide by, there are almost always exceptions," Ghanima stated. "One exception to the assumption that moral culpability lies in either individual character or freely willed acts is in cases where the insanity defense—or its corollary, diminished responsibility—can be used to argue that a guilty deed was not the product of a guilty mind. In such cases, the legal systems of most Western societies assume that the person is in some way not at fault, because his actions were a consequence of abnormal brain functions."


"Now, then, let's ponder." Ghanima leaned against the wall to survey the room. "Moral responsibility, madness, and free will. Go." 

[OCD UP]

trigons_child: (Red headband)

Re: Sign-In #4

[personal profile] trigons_child 2009-07-27 05:49 am (UTC)(link)
Rachel Roth

Re: Sign-In #4

[identity profile] heartflames.livejournal.com 2009-07-27 07:50 am (UTC)(link)
Eleanor Robinson
thatsamilkshake: (dubious)

Re: Sign-In #4

[personal profile] thatsamilkshake 2009-07-27 08:09 am (UTC)(link)
Francine Peters

Re: Sign-In #4

[identity profile] walks-two-paths.livejournal.com 2009-07-27 12:47 pm (UTC)(link)
Savannah Levine

Re: Class Discussion: Moral Responsibility

[identity profile] walks-two-paths.livejournal.com 2009-07-27 12:49 pm (UTC)(link)
"Destiny or not," Savannah said softly. "You should still be held accountable for your actions. Having a destiny doesn't mean that you should have free reign to terrorize and bully people on the way to that destiny."

Re: Sign-In #4

[identity profile] 17andinfected.livejournal.com 2009-07-27 01:14 pm (UTC)(link)
Shilo Wallace
trigons_child: (Looking to the side)

Re: Class Discussion: Moral Responsibility

[personal profile] trigons_child 2009-07-27 01:14 pm (UTC)(link)
Raven nodded. "A destiny does not control every single action. What you do along the way may make a difference."

Re: Class Discussion: Moral Responsibility

[identity profile] 17andinfected.livejournal.com 2009-07-27 01:16 pm (UTC)(link)
Shilo nodded. "Just because a child is born to a murderer, does not mean that the baby will grow up to be a murderer as well." Because that wasn't part of a song in Repo! didn't hit too close to home at all. "It's all nature versus nurture, I suppose."

Re: Class Discussion: Moral Responsibility

[identity profile] walks-two-paths.livejournal.com 2009-07-27 01:17 pm (UTC)(link)
Savannah nodded. "And those actions can decide how or why your destiny happens. There are always choices, no matter what you think your destiny means or is asking of you."

Re: Sign-In #4

[identity profile] new-to-liirness.livejournal.com 2009-07-27 01:57 pm (UTC)(link)
Liir Thropp

Re: Listen to the Lecture

[identity profile] new-to-liirness.livejournal.com 2009-07-27 01:59 pm (UTC)(link)
Liir listened. And had Opinions.

Whether he would voice them or not was another matter.

Re: Class Discussion: Moral Responsibility

[identity profile] new-to-liirness.livejournal.com 2009-07-27 02:00 pm (UTC)(link)
"Destiny is something you must do. How you accomplish it, I imagine, is up to you. Which leaves the accountability of an individual quite intact, I should think."

Re: Class Discussion: Insanity Defense

[identity profile] new-to-liirness.livejournal.com 2009-07-27 02:02 pm (UTC)(link)
"Insanity is no defense," Liir said, looking quite sure of that.

"Any atrocity assumes a certain amount of madness in its author, and if one did it for greed or because one was mad does not change a dead body to a live one."
glacial_queen: (Red lipstick in shadow)

Re: Sign-In #4

[personal profile] glacial_queen 2009-07-27 02:17 pm (UTC)(link)
Karla
puppy_fair: (Give Me Wings)

Re: Sign-In #4

[personal profile] puppy_fair 2009-07-27 02:39 pm (UTC)(link)
Zack Fair
glacial_queen: (Class-Pondering Lecture)

Re: Class Discussion: Insanity Defense

[personal profile] glacial_queen 2009-07-27 04:37 pm (UTC)(link)
"This question is quite difficult," Karla said thoughtfully. "On the one hand, walking in the Twisted Kingdom--being mad, I mean--legitimately warps the way one sees reality. One can look at a tree and see a child, look at a child and see a rabid wolf, look at a rabid wolf and see a friend. If madness were controllable or sensical, it wouldn't be madness. I suppose it matters what crimes that person commits while in the Twisted Kingdom and why. The Blood has no laws against murder, so sanity technically does not matter. Rape is punished by execution, but there might be some few reasons why being in the Twisted Kingdom would commute that sentence."

She bit her lip. "Everything has a price, and not even being in the Twisted Kingdom can free you from paying the debt that is owed. But it might lesson it some."

Page 1 of 4