Leadership, Thursday, Period 1, Class 12 (12/4/08)

[1petrelli1.livejournal.com]

"War is hell," Nathan said after everyone had gotten to their seats. "There aren't many people who find war fun. There are those who find it inevitable. As a leader one of your hardest decisions will be about when to go to war.

"Do you go to war to defend your people? What counts as defense? If you know of a threat do you strike first or do you wait until you're hit? Is it ethical to make the pain and death of your own people a touchstone? Are you serving your people well if you allow them to be hurt?

"What about others? Many would argue that genocide is wrong, but would you go to war over it? Does it matter if it's happening to an ally? An enemy? Someone who you have no relationship with at all? What about if your country is suffering a depression and doesn't have the resources to go to war? What if you think you should go to war but your people don't agree? Does it matter if their disagreement is based in a prejudice of some kind? What if it's based on the argument that resources are better spent caring for the sick and poor within your country?

"As you can see, it's a complicated topic," Nathan said. "There is no way that it could be covered in a single class. For today let's limit ourselves to a discussion of those questions. Or, boiled down to a single one: When, as a leader, do you decide to go to war?

"Let's hear your thoughts."

[ooc: OCD is up!]

Comments

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[1petrelli1.livejournal.com]

Collapsy.

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[stocksgrrl.livejournal.com]

T.R. Wexler

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[talks2objects.livejournal.com]

Dor

During the lecture

[1petrelli1.livejournal.com]

Take notes, talk amongst yourselves, the usual.

Re: During the lecture

[joan-notjane.livejournal.com]

Joan took some notes.

Re: During the lecture

[finding-x-dream.livejournal.com]

Agnes took careful notes, as always.

Disccussion!

[1petrelli1.livejournal.com]

When do you think you should go to war?

Re: Disccussion!

[talks2objects.livejournal.com]

"Where I'm from it's usually a matter of necessity," Dor replied. "Every couple hundred years or so my kingdom gets invaded by armies. Our only choice is really to defend ourselves or let them destroy everything we've built."

Re: Disccussion!

[1petrelli1.livejournal.com]

"There are those who would say that your situation is proof that war doesn't work," Nathan said. He didn't agree with those people, but he felt as a teacher he had to point it out. "Would you agree with that?"

Re: Disccussion!

[stocksgrrl.livejournal.com]

Turtle had pondered it carefully, deeply, before deciding, with knowledge that it was a probably naive of her, "Only when it's absolutely necessary. Defense is a given. But there are more ways to fight a war than a militaristic one. Economic or political maneuvers can work sometimes, and might save a lot of lives. I know, I know, it's not that simple, but that's exactly why the simple solution of just sending in troops shouldn't be the primary one."

Re: Disccussion!

[1petrelli1.livejournal.com]

"You bring up a good point," Nathan said. Not that he was surprised since this was Turtle. "As technology and human interaction changes, so does the definition of war. It's no longer a matter of hitting people with sticks. Take a computer virus. You could unleash something that brought another country to a crippling halt. But would that count as an act of war? If another country did it to you would retaliation be warrented? What if your only method of retaliation was with bombs and guns?"

Re: Disccussion!

[endsthegame]

"When it's you or them," Ender said, a little subdued. "There's no other situation that justifies that much cruelty."

Re: Disccussion!

[1petrelli1.livejournal.com]

"What if it's them or someone other than you?" Nathan asked.

Re: Disccussion!

[momslilassassin]

"As the last possible option," Ben said firmly. "Not by accident, not because someone else is saber rattling and you feel threatened, and not because you want to prove how much better you are than the rest of your family."

Someone has issues, yes.

Re: Disccussion!

[1petrelli1.livejournal.com]

Nathan had no idea what that was like. Certainly not in terms of daddy issues.

"What if people get hurt while you wait?" Nathan asked.

Re: Disccussion!

[heromaniac]

Not that it was in her own basic nature, but if there was one thing Hunting class had drilled into her it was that research was important.

"I believe that you and your team should first make sure that there's no other way. Even when it seems like there's no other answer, someone familiar with what's going on may be able to just fix whatever is wrong without blowing it up into something where anyone gets hurt or dies. Or, be able to say 'that is a monster and please make it stop destroying cities' even when it looks to just be a flower."

Re: Disccussion!

[1petrelli1.livejournal.com]

"...is that a common problem where you're from?" Nathan asked.

Re: Disccussion!

[shiniernyours.livejournal.com]

"When you're sure you can win," said Bender, adding. "And when they've got something you want - planets, gold, the usual. Why are all your examples so defensive? It just puts you on the backfoot when it comes to kicking their asses."

Re: Disccussion!

[imcalledandros.livejournal.com]

"Where I come from it's only if the enemy attacks first," Andros said, "we have to be prepared for a strike but we can't actively engage the enemy unless they force us to,"

Re: Disccussion!

[finding-x-dream.livejournal.com]

"Only if there's absolutely no other choice," Agnes answered. "But if you can, you should make sure to strike first, before they attack you."

Re: Disccussion!

[solo_sword]

"When it has to be done," said Jaina, who had a tiny bit of experience here. "It's not an easy question, because there are tens of thousands of reasons people have to go attack someone else to get what they want, and every side is going to think that they're in the right. It's not a step I'd take myself without a lot of provocation, though. I'd be trying to prevent it till the day war became a matter of defense."

Talk to Meg

[1petrelli1.livejournal.com]

Once she pings in, TA-style.

Re: Talk to Meg

[meg-powers.livejournal.com]

Meg might have been a bit late because of all the candy. But she was there.

Talk to Nathan

[1petrelli1.livejournal.com]

Though you probably don't want to know the reasons he thinks are acceptable for going to war.

OOC

[1petrelli1.livejournal.com]

Discussion can be back and forth amongst students as well as with Nathan.