fandomhigh | Leadership, Thursday, Period 1, Class 12 (12/4/08)

"War is hell," Nathan said after everyone had gotten to their seats. "There aren't many people who find war fun. There are those who find it inevitable. As a leader one of your hardest decisions will be about when to go to war.

"Do you go to war to defend your people? What counts as defense? If you know of a threat do you strike first or do you wait until you're hit? Is it ethical to make the pain and death of your own people a touchstone? Are you serving your people well if you allow them to be hurt?

"What about others? Many would argue that genocide is wrong, but would you go to war over it? Does it matter if it's happening to an ally? An enemy? Someone who you have no relationship with at all? What about if your country is suffering a depression and doesn't have the resources to go to war? What if you think you should go to war but your people don't agree? Does it matter if their disagreement is based in a prejudice of some kind? What if it's based on the argument that resources are better spent caring for the sick and poor within your country?

"As you can see, it's a complicated topic," Nathan said. "There is no way that it could be covered in a single class. For today let's limit ourselves to a discussion of those questions. Or, boiled down to a single one: When, as a leader, do you decide to go to war?

"Let's hear your thoughts."

[ooc: OCD is up!]

Threaded | Top-Level Comments Only

Collapsy.

Take notes, talk amongst yourselves, the usual.

When do you think you should go to war?

Once she pings in, TA-style.

Though you probably don't want to know the reasons he thinks are acceptable for going to war.

Discussion can be back and forth amongst students as well as with Nathan.

T.R. Wexler

Dor

"Where I'm from it's usually a matter of necessity," Dor replied. "Every couple hundred years or so my kingdom gets invaded by armies. Our only choice is really to defend ourselves or let them destroy everything we've built."

"There are those who would say that your situation is proof that war doesn't work," Nathan said. He didn't agree with those people, but he felt as a teacher he had to point it out. "Would you agree with that?"

"Not really," Dor replied. "I mean I don't like war but I'm not going to have everything we built pillaged by an invading army. For several centuries we tried having our country blocked off from those armies with a shield but as a result we didn't get any new influx of humans and we started to die off. So now when the next invasion comes we'll probably have to fight."

"Has your country ever fought other wars?" Nathan asked.

Turtle had pondered it carefully, deeply, before deciding, with knowledge that it was a probably naive of her, "Only when it's absolutely necessary. Defense is a given. But there are more ways to fight a war than a militaristic one. Economic or political maneuvers can work sometimes, and might save a lot of lives. I know, I know, it's not that simple, but that's exactly why the simple solution of just sending in troops shouldn't be the primary one."

"You bring up a good point," Nathan said. Not that he was surprised since this was Turtle. "As technology and human interaction changes, so does the definition of war. It's no longer a matter of hitting people with sticks. Take a computer virus. You could unleash something that brought another country to a crippling halt. But would that count as an act of war? If another country did it to you would retaliation be warrented? What if your only method of retaliation was with bombs and guns?"

"I'd like to know," Turtle said, "what sort of situation, besides defense against the same, would warrant only bombs and guns, because I can't think of one. Wiping out a country's computer system like that isn't free of deaths, either, so of course it's an act of war. There will always be civilian victims, even if all you're doing is setting up a tariff against trade with that country. That could result in citizens not getting enough food or water or other essential needs. Which is why I stand by my stance of only when utterly necessary."

"Some say bombs and guns work because they're so horrible," Nathan said. "Yes, people die, but is that worse in comparison to decades-long sanctions that put a nation into poverty?"

"Not really," Dor admitted. "For the most part we try to coexist with the other races that live in Xanth and seek reasonable alternatives."

"What if something happened that called for war elsewhere?" Nathan asked. "Say a genocide, or an attack on one of the races you coexist with. Do you think your country would go to war in that circumstance or would they prefer to save their resources for the wars to come?"

That did cause Turtle to pause for a moment.

"People can recover from poverty and recessions and hardships and tyranny and dictators, Mister Petrelli," she said. "They can't recover from being dead. It's not easy, but the easy option is very rarely the best."

Edited 2008-12-04 16:40 (UTC)

"There are those who might disagree with you," Nathan said. "Which is not to say you're wrong. Just that this is part of the difficulties leaders face when making decisions like this."

Turtle nodded. "You're never going to get full, 100% support, I know. But you have to know what you stand for, and actually stand for it, or else you don't deserve even 1% of support. If one of those people who disagree with me can make a case for their point, I'll listen, but, if that's the right way, I hope they have a really, really good case."

"This is where knowing your ultimate goals and values comes in," Nathan said. "Likewise having good advisors. There's a time to listen and a time to stand your ground. Those are the tools that help you make those judgement calls."

"We'd probably intervene if it involved genocide," Dor said thinking back to his quest in the Tapestry. "But because we try to coexist with all races, our first step would try to attempt to mediate a discussion between the two groups and try to resolve the conflict that way."

Andrew Wiggin

"When it's you or them," Ender said, a little subdued. "There's no other situation that justifies that much cruelty."

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Leadership, Thursday, Period 1, Class 12 (12/4/08)

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