Destiny & Free Will, #4 [Period 1, Monday, July 28]

[atreideslioness]

"I haven't scared you off yet?" Ghanima asked, looking up from her game of chess. "Fantastic."

"The question of free will is if, and in what sense, rational agents exercise control over their actions and decisions," Ghani said, hopping off her desk to wander haphazardly among the desks. "Addressing this question requires understanding the relationship between freedom and cause, and determining whether the laws of nature are causally deterministic. Sounds fun, hrm?"  

"The principle of free will has religious, ethical, and scientific implications. For example, in the religious realm, free will may imply that an omnipotent divinity does not assert its power over individual will and choices. In the ethical sense, it may imply that individuals can be held morally accountable for their actions. And last, but far from least, in the scientific arena it may imply that the actions of the body, including the brain and the mind, are not wholly determined by physical causality. Needless to say, the question of free will has been a central issue since the beginning of philosophical thought."

"Society generally holds people responsible for their actions, if law and order prevail, and will say that they deserve praise or blame for what they do." Ghanima shook her head, mouth pinched in distaste. "However, many believe that moral responsibility requires free will. If you have no free will, then how can you be held responsible for anything? Thus, another important issue in the debate on free will is whether individuals are ever morally responsible for their actions—and, if so, in what sense."

"There is an example that those of you native to this planet and era may be familiar with," she said, walking forward to being writing on the board.  "St. Paul, in his Epistle to the Romans addresses the question of moral responsibility as follows: "Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?" If you follow Paul's line of reasoning, individuals can still be dishonoured for their acts even though those acts were ultimately completely determined by God."

"Of course, no matter the rules one chooses to abide by, there are almost always exceptions," Ghanima stated. "One exception to the assumption that moral culpability lies in either individual character or freely willed acts is in cases where the insanity defense—or its corollary, diminished responsibility—can be used to argue that a guilty deed was not the product of a guilty mind. In such cases, the legal systems of most Western societies assume that the person is in some way not at fault, because his actions were a consequence of abnormal brain functions."

"Now, then, let's ponder." Ghanima leaned against the wall to survey the room. "Moral responsibility, madness, and free will. Go." 

[OOC:  Wait for the OCD is up!  Hit it!]

Comments

Sign-In #4

[atreideslioness]

As you will it to be.

Re: Sign-In #4

[raspberryturk]

Reno

Listen to the Lecture

[atreideslioness]

Or not, as it's a matter of personal choice. Just beware the personal choice of the teacher if she catches you sleeping.

Re: Listen to the Lecture

[walks-two-paths.livejournal.com]

Savannah was taking notes on the lecture.

Re: Listen to the Lecture

[withoutverona]

Romeo squirmed a little as he listened. The teacher's blue eyes seemed to see more than she implied, and he had pondered this question himself.

Re: Listen to the Lecture

[missed-the-gate.livejournal.com]

While his body was awake, John's mind certainly wasn't yet and he wasn't quite sure he wanted to be.

Re: Listen to the Lecture

[elephantgadget.livejournal.com]

Helen listened very intently.

Re: Listen to the Lecture

[key-of-heart.livejournal.com]

Sora listened to her very intently, some of the lecture seemed to hit home more than he liked.

Class Discussion: Moral Responsibility

[atreideslioness]

If we assume destiny to be real, can people ever be held accountable for their actions? Why or why not?

[OOC: As will all class discussions, feel free to ping to anyone anywhere anywhen!]

Re: Class Discussion: Moral Responsibility

[raspberryturk]

Now there was a hard topic, if ever Reno had heard one.

"If there's one thing I've seen too damn much of, it's people never bein' held accountable for what they done until it's already too late to fix it. What people don't deal with, somethin' else usually comes along to bite 'em in the ass for anyhow, zoto." He shrugged. "Maybe people have gotta start holdin' people accountable. Because if they don't, what usually happens is that things get worse and freakin' worse, until finally there are rocks fallin' from the sky and even the people who ain't to blame end up sufferin' for what a bunch'a idiots at the top did."

Idiots at the top, and their business-suit-clad stooges, of course.

Re: Class Discussion: Moral Responsibility

[endsthegame]

Ender was silent for a long while. He thought of a great many things that hung heavily on his shoulders; about the trial, and about the colonists who tried to sweep him up in their arms and tell him it wasn't his fault.

He was surprised by how calm, how disaffected his voice rang out when he finally spoke. "You're still the one who pulled the trigger," he said, "Whatever anyone else thinks, the guilt is still yours." He should probably say more, but now that he'd been given the opportunity, he didn't know how to put more words to it than that.

Re: Class Discussion: Moral Responsibility

[withoutverona]

"I'm not sure," Romeo admitted, pushing his hair back. "If we're puppets dancing to recorded music, it seems as though all should be forgiven, as everything happens to some larger purpose. Even what might seem like terrible choices."

Re: Class Discussion: Moral Responsibility

[shyest-eyes.livejournal.com]

"In t-their personal life, y-yes," Hinata said quietly, but firmly. "U-Under the orders of t-their leader? It d-depends on the w-world. I-In my w-world it is the o-one that g-gave the order that m-must carry the r-responsiblity. W-Weapons, after all, should n-not."

Re: Class Discussion: Moral Responsibility

[solo_sword]

"Whether destiny calls for you to do something or not, you should still be held accountable for how it comes to pass," said Jaina who would never be held accountable for some major stuff ever. "Everything has its consequences."

Re: Class Discussion: Moral Responsibility

[elephantgadget.livejournal.com]

"People are responsible for what they do," Helen said firmly. "I do not believe destiny controls all the minor day to day activities that people do."

Class Discussion: Schools of Thought

[atreideslioness]

Look at all the handouts Ghanima has so thoughtfully provided! Which school of thought is closest to your own? Which one rankles you most? Why?

Western Philosophies | The Science of Free Will | Eastern Philosophies | Other Theologies


[OOC: First person to defend Kierkegaard faces the wrath of the Ahdari OOC. Be Warned!!!

Class Discussion: The Insanity Defense

[atreideslioness]

Yea or Nay? Fight it out with your classmates!

Re: Class Discussion: The Insanity Defense

[raspberryturk]

"Nope," Reno said, pretty firmly. "Sayin' it ain't someone's fault just because they're not right in the head holds the doors open for it to happen again and again and a-freakin'-gain. So maybe the solution to the problem is different. Bein' lenient and bein' less effective don't gotta be the same thing. But if someone wasn't workin' right upstairs when they did somethin' that caused huge damage, that doesn't change the fact that they did it, and they can sure as hell do it again."

And yes, if anyone asked him, he'd admit that he was accessory to the crazy people causing mayhem, himself. That didn't mean he had to be happy about it.

Re: Class Discussion: The Insanity Defense

[withoutverona]

"I think certainly a criminal's state of mind should be taken into consideration, but that cannot be an excuse in itself," Romeo said, remembering a certain ungodly anger that had once driven him.

Re: Class Discussion: The Insanity Defense

[shyest-eyes.livejournal.com]

"It d-does not m-matter," Hinata said. "T-They'll be p-punished j-just the same."

Re: Class Discussion: The Insanity Defense

[solo_sword]

"There really are people who do things because they've lost hold on reality, or because they honestly don't realize that certain behaviors are wrong, so I do think the insanity defense has some merit," said Jaina. "That doesn't mean they should get to go off on their merry way since at that point I think they'd at least require treatment."

Talk to the TAs

[atreideslioness]

If it is your will to do so.

Re: Talk to the TAs

[raspberryturk]

Reno was there, leaning up against the desk as casually as possible. Maybe he was frowning a little more than usual, today. Responsibility was always a touchy topic, so far as he was concerned.

Talk to Ghanima

[atreideslioness]

She's here, playing chess with herself both before and after class.

OOC

[atreideslioness]

If the very act of tying off the OCD prevents the end of the world, is that my free will at work, or destiny imposing strictures on us all?