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Traditional Fairy Tales, Class Two

Monday, January 15, Period 2

The table in the center of the room was filled with breakfast pastries and hot drinks, there were stacks of books close at hand for the students to borrow for their readings assignments, and Aziraphale looked quite cheerful as he sat in his armchair and waited for the class to arrived.

"Good morning, everyone! I hope you all enjoyed your first week of classes. Today we'll begin our discussion of the basic character archetypes found in fairy tales. Your assigned reading was Jack the Giant Killer and Molly Whuppie. Following the lecture, we'll discuss the central characters in these two stories, and how they fit into the roles of hero and villain."

LECTURE: "With a few exceptions, every fairy tale contains two central figures: the hero or heroine, and the villain. These characters can take many forms, from innocent child to clever thief, from evil stepmother to hungry wolf, but the central conflict of a fairy tale often evolves around the idea of the hero outwitting the villain. The hero may have a quest to fulfill, a puzzle to solve, or a difficult situation to escape. They may act out of self-defense, altruism, love, or necessity -- sometimes even out of greed or fear. Heros display a common set of characteristics -- in general, they are quick-witted, creative, and bold. Villains are not always evil, but are in general selfish and greedy, and usually act out of a desire to fulfill personal needs or an often baseless dislike of the hero."

DISCUSSION: "Take a look at the two stories from your assigned reading. Identify the hero and villain in each one, and then explain what motivates their actions. In your opinion, why is the villain villainous, and why does the hero act heroically?

"I would also like you to take a little time at the end of class to meet with the members of your project groups. I'll be expecting proposals for your final project in a few weeks, and I'll try to give you time during each class to meet with one another."

ASSIGNMENT: "For next week, read Mr Fox and John the True."

[ooc: For those who are new to Aziraphale's classes, there is always a spread of breakfast pastries and hot drinks, which you are free to mod. Also, the room is always arranged with comfortable chairs and couches for seating, rather than desks. ~~Please wait for the~~ OCD threads are now up, and class is in session.]

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Neil was quiet for a while, looking thoughtful before he raised his hand to give his opinion.

“It’s a little hard to say, Sir. I mean obviously from what we’ve learned in class, Jack is the hero in the first story and Molly the hero in the second. They both fit the ‘heroic myth’ and go on the ‘heroic’ journey. They come from humble beginnings, they are challenged from the onset with a task that they take on themselves for the betterment of others and they complete these seemingly insurmountable tasks through original thinking. Which seems a bit strange since as I recall from history, monarchies didn’t encourage original thinking but I guess if it made a good story… anyway.”

Taking a breath, Neil continued.

“But there is one small flaw in my ability to see either of them as pure hero in that they both receive monetary and social status gain from their endeavors. Molly in particularly, okay the first time she’s saving her life and the lives of her sisters but after that she’s just going after the giant’s stuff to get rewards from the king. Speaking of the giants, it’s obvious in both stories that they are to be the villains, mostly due to the grotesque language used to describe them and the horrific extremes of their actions but again, taking Molly in particular, once she and her sisters had escaped, what was heroic about her return to the giant’s lair to take his stuff? Were people in danger? Now in Jack’s story, the giants were out there bringing the horror to peaceful folks but Molly’s giant only get nasty when people were on his territory. So I guess I have a hard time seeing either Jack or Molly as completely heroic….err…even though, I guess that’s what the lecture was supposed to be about.”

Neil blushed a little and moved to sit down.

“Sorry, Sir.”

River looked at Neil. "Why do you assume heroes have to be selfless? And isn't using their large size and superior strength to kill people villainous enough, apart from grotesque looks?"

"Well, if they're doing it for monetary reward, aren't they then called mercenary?" Neil asked. "If not, what's the difference between a hero performing a task for a grateful unit of people who then compensate them and a mercenary? The timing of the discussion of payment?"

Shifting slightly in his chair, Neil made a note and then looked back towards River.

"And as for the giants...well I guess I sort of subscribe to the idea that the winner tells the tale. After all, if these were tales written for giants how would they present the facts? I mean...okay, how about this, you point out the giants using their superior strength to kill people as being villainous. What about when people use their superior strength to...oh...say slaughter lambs or take eggs from chickens to eat? Does that make people villainous? The first giant in the Jack story, he took the oxen as a food source. Okay, maybe we'd like to see him sit down and negotiate with the villagers for a fair divison of resources but to the giant, he was bigger, he was superior in strength he took what he wanted and needed. When was the last time you heard of a farmer negotiating with a ewe that he was going to take her babies and turn them into lamb chops?"

"Not every hero has money to start with," River replied.

"And the winner tells the tale would make sense if the point fo fairy tales was to describe historical events, but it's not. I'm sure that giants' fairy tales would be about the evil little humans. The point is to describe the struggle, not the truth of an event.

She smiled happily at Neil.

Neil snorted.

"Well, if that's the case then it certainly lives up to that billing because I see very little truth in these archetypes when set against real life. True heroes fight for the dream that burns inside them. The dream that moves them towards the greatness of heroic actions. They’re not often compensated and praised as heroes, in fact more often they are maligned and shunned by the very societies they seek to liberate due to the radical form of their dreams and ideals. It’s always too much change too fast and not until after the hero himself has been vilified, persecuted and driven to the edges of society in exile does the society as a whole come to realize the gift of his contribution.

These heroes in the books who get their fortune and their happily ever afters were men and women who took advantage of a situation to better their own lot in life. Not heroes."

Yeah, he might have been thinking about Mr. Keating just then.

It wasn't hard to pick up Neil's thoughts on Mr Keating.

"What's the difference between a hero and a lunatic, using your definition then?" It wasn't that River disagreed with Neil, but she was curious to hear him argue the point.

Neil paused and looked pensive for a bit, ordering his thoughts carefully. It wasn't that he was aruging with River on a personal level, just arguing with the subject matter and the discussion question.

"I guess, when you boil it all down, the common school of thought is it's a very fine line, defined ultimately by history." Neil admitted with a quick little smile. "But I like to think that a hero, using my definition, is someone with the inner vision not to look at the world as it is or as they want it to be -which is how I would define a lunatic- but they see something in the world, in society as a whole, in people...err...beings as a whole that is beyond what has become the commonly accepted norm and they are willing to stand up and try to express that potential growth to those around them, even recognizing that they stand a good chance of facing ridecule for their efforts."

Sitting forward, his dark eyes gleamed a little as he surfed on the vision of what Keating had come to mean to him.

"A hero recognizes the challenges before them and comes up with ways to express themselves, to take a naturally fearful society and help lead them through the dark wilderness of the unknown to the new potential. A lunatic, throws themselves against the wall of societies' fears with no thought of how to guide others forward."

River nodded. "Like Mr Keating," she commented quietly, without thinking.

[ooc: and now the mun is too tired to argue properly]

"All very good questions, Mr Perry," Aziraphale replied. "I'd like you to tell me what you think. Why are the giants put into the role of villain, if the actions of the Molly Whuppie are in fact taking advantage and victimizing them? Think of it in the context of a teaching story, a way to pass on social standards and morals."

He smiled to let Neil know that he was pleased with the young man's response, then added, "And in answer to your observation about the hero appearing mercenary: remember that these stories would have been told among the lower classes originally. Why do you think the tellers and listeners to stories like these might be attracted to a hero who receives a monetary reward in the end?"

Neil squirmed a bit in his chair, drawing his pencil through his fingers in a nervous twitch while he formulated his thoughts.

"Well, given the time in which these were written I rather imagine that the giants were an allegory for the nobility and the monarchy. As you say, these stories were told among the lower classes originally and in that position being subject to the capricious whims of a larger than life figure, whom it would be rare if you saw them on anything other than a horse, where they towered over you, well...a giant isn't that much a stretch."

Shifting a little in his chair, Neil gesticulated gracefully with his hands.

"I'm not saying that the story isn't meant to show the protagonists in anything other than a heroic light. Get the better of the oppressors, depower them as they depower us and make your fortune at their expense, it's a fairly common theme when you get into a society where the classes are so widely seperated by social economic status. It's just that from here from my stand point, not as a whatever century peasant, I don't find the story as clear cut, black and white as all that."

Neil tapped his pencil and looked a bit bemused.

"I guess, Sir that I don't see the story as a way to pass on a social standard, more I see it as a way to express discontent of many being controlled by few. But if there is a moral in the story, both Molly and Jack are written as clever, honest, always working folk and perhaps that's the moral. Make your fortune but do it through your mind and your worth ethic rather than by the circumstances of your birth."

Nodding, Aziraphale replied, "Excellent, Mr Perry. And you may well be right -- it's not possible, really, for us to know exactly what goal the originators of these stories had in mind when they began telling them. But you raise a very good point, about the differences between how the tales are received by modern readers. When we get a bit further along, we'll look a little more closely at how class might play into characterization, but the idea of the heros being portrayed as 'working folk' is an extremely common one. Especially in the English fairy tale tradition, and in the earlier versions of the stories before they became dressed up for literary publication."

He paused for a moment, thinking on the issues Neil had raised. "As I mentioned to Miss Lang, the idea of an ordinary hero or heroine overcoming great odds, and especially overpowering an enemy that's depicted as frightening or monstrous, is a well-used device. It isn't always 'morals' as we think of them that the stories are passing along. It's also very often encouragement or hope, the idea that a person can better himself. But also in a way that maintains a certain social structure -- the peasant hero might become wealthy, but as you say, it's through the use of his brain and skills, not by virtue of birth or a sudden windfall. And if a peasant tricks or usurps the power of an authority figure, it's because that authority figure was unworthy, corrupt, or evil."

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Traditional Fairy Tales, Class Two

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