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destiny and free will

Destiny & Free Will [Monday, Period 4]

Ghanima was already in the classroom as the students assembled, bouncing Trebor on her lap and holding a steaming mug of spiced coffee in one hand, as she subjected each person to an apparently disinterested inspection from her glowing blue-on-blue eyes.

Not even another Truthsayer would have been able to tell what she was thinking.

The moment the bell rang, her eyes snapped from her son to the assembled students. "Good afternoon," she said in a clear voice that carried effortlessly. "This is Destiny and Free Will. If you are in the wrong class, please consider this your opportunity to leave. Although if you are here and believe in fate, then you are where you are supposed to be, no matter what it says on your schedule. And, quite possibly, even if you do not believe"

"Regardless of your views on the matter, I am Lady Ghanima Atreides of the planet Arrakis, a time and place far from here. This fine young man," she set down her coffee to hold up a laughing Trebor, "Is my son, Trebor, First Scion of the House of Atreus."

"I do not answer to 'Lady Atreides,' as that is my grandmother. Ghanima is fine, though if you are one of those who is uncomfortable without an honorific, 'Professor' or 'Miss' is acceptable. Trebor answers to Trebor, or Teddy, if he listens. For those of you whom I have had in class before," she smiled suddenly, looking far less severe. "Welcome back."

"This class is designed to look at the differing opinions on predestination and freewill from a variety of religious, temporal, and philosophical schools of thought," she continued. "Regardless of any personal experiences you may have had on this topic, I expect everyone to maintain a respectful and open mind towards the subject matter and your classmates. Mocking destiny is a dangerous pastime, and not one I will permit during class hours. What you do on your own time, however, is your business."

"There is no syllabus, because to have one would tell you when a class is fated to fall. Or perhaps it is free choice which allows me to not have one." Ghanima's smile was decidedly impish. "For now, I'd like us to discuss as a group if you believe in destiny, free will, or neither, and why."

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As was foretold!

Gray

Lana Beniko (continuing the trend of Very Blonds)

Liliana Vess (ruined the streak)

Charlie Gale (who throws it out the window)

Belle

Look around, pass notes, etc.

Do you believe in destiny? Free will? Why or why not? What is it about this class that has interested you, and what do you hope to learn?

"I'm Gray," Gray sighed, sounding exhausted by the words. "I know destiny is a thing, and I also know it sucks."

"Do you believe in one, singular, set destiny, Gray?" Ghanima asked, curious. "Or is it like one of those 'Chose Your Own Adventure' books, with multiple paths on how you get there, with either one singular ending or a few different predetermined possibilities?"

Edited 2025-07-07 19:33 (UTC)

"I think it depends," Gray said. "There was a prophecy about us that has two possible endings, so...that. But also my brothers and I were cursed before we even existed, and then we had to come to exist to fulfill the curse. So that's set. Also I'm really, really hoping fate can be bucked sometimes. Not because of the prophecy." Lazarus had been doing it for over a millennium at this point, but--look, any time Gray thought about that situation too hard he got the urge to murder an angel.

"So do you view it as a sentient being out there somewhere, working to manipulate events for a particular reason or purpose? Or more like a river that you can try to divert or dam?" she inquired. "Although I do not recommend trying to dam a river completely... that often leads to even greater cascading devastation, simply over a longer term."

"It's not a matter of 'viewing it' one way or another," Gray said. "The Supreme Being is one hundred percent real and one hundred percent manipulating the outcome." Even if it didn't seem to be present in the, well, present. "I just don't think that it can control everything, or it wouldn't have had to play the long game with me and my brothers in the first place. That would be pretty dumb."

Hey that bit about trying to dam a river leading to greater devastation was super not helping his desire to go stab an angel, Ghanima, just FYI. 'Greater cascading devastation' when the dam broke was in fact what he was desperately afraid of.

"Ah, so you have someone in particular yanking the strings of fate, my condolences," Ghanima replied. "It is always so vexing to have someone else whom you know is making the chess moves when you can't see the board."

Ghanima loved her brother, she did, and she knew that she would not have been able to do what he was doing. But sometimes Leto was quite vexing, and not simply in his Leto-ish way.

"Do you believe that your adversary, for lack of a better term, dabbling in the various 'omnis' to move events, or is it more that they are using a precognition to stack the deck?"

Gray shrugged. "Por qué no los dos? I don't think it's all the Supreme Being. Like, in my universe, all supernatural beings have a fated mate. From witches, which are basically just spicy humans, all the way up to, theoretically, the archangels. Someone you meet and that's it for you. Some people call them soulmates," he added, in case that would be a more familiar term. "Although lately I have been seriously questioning the conventional wisdom that that person is your perfect match." So, so much questioning. "And I don't think the Supreme Being is like, pairing everybody off. If they are I have even more serious questions for them than I did before. So like, fate: definitely real, but maybe you can still make choices? I have to hope so, anyway."

"You have some lifeform powerful enough to be called the Supreme Being, and it spends its time handing-out curses and potentially playing matchmaker?" Ghanima looked like she didn't know if she should laugh or cry. "Abu Dhur! That... sounds like something my brother would do, actually."

She glanced at Trebor. "Never tell your uncle about that, he already has too many ideas about his Golden Path."

"While I can sort-of see the usefulness of soulmates on a romantic level for the emotional well-being of a species, if I squint," and that was clearly dubious on Ghanima's end, "--what purpose, exactly, do you feel a curse serves? Why would a Supreme Being curse their own sentient children, especially ones who had not yet come into being?"

"I dunno. It wasn't to punish our dads, since most of them didn't give a shit," Gray said. "So I'm not sure why we got to be cursed just for being born."

It was actually an interesting question with an interesting answer, but as of yet Gray was lacking the information necessary to get to that answer.

"I believe in free will," Lana said. "Though I will freely admit that the galaxy - or the universe, I suppose - seems to prefer certain outcomes and tilt in their favor."

"So you feel your Force has desired outcomes, and gives things a nudge?" Ghanima asked dryly. "Why -- or how -- do you think that happens? What is it that drives the fundamental underpinnings of your reality to manipulate events?"

"It's not that the Force desires things," Lana said. "I don't believe it's sentient, whatever the Jedi might believe. I just believe that energies tend to flow in specific ways, and the Force is no exception."

"Rivers flow in a particular direction because of geography and gravity," Ghanima said dryly. "Solar winds gust in patterns due to their electrons and protons react in certain ways. For an ecological energy flow, there are producers and consumers."

"So if the energy of the Force tends to flow a specific way, who, exactly, is the producer, and who the consumer? What outside forces are acting upon it to create these patterns? A persistent pattern, by definition, cannot be the product of chaos."

"Life is the producer and the consumer," Lana said. "And Force users act upon it more directly. Now if you ask how our actions upon it create those patterns, we could be here all year and not come to conclusions," she conceded ruefully.

"A little bit from column A and a little bit from Column B," Charlie said. "I was born Wild," capital W there, "as the Aunties tell it and that means I'm destined for certain things. Can't deny I'm not a big rule follower and I like to wander, but I think I've got a fair amount of free will in what I choose to do and go."

"You are using the 'Chose Your Own Adventure' book, so to speak," Ghanima replied. "You are choosing your paths... but do you feel that the outcomes at the end are already written, depending on which road you take, or are you crafting them as you go?"

"Broad strokes, maybe?" Charlie said, "But the details? No. My Auntie Catherine is Wild, too, and I've got her need for independence and space from the family, but there's no way I'd end up like her."

"Absolutely not," Liliana said. "There's a reason I use black mana, not green. Self-determination is a core tenet of my philosophy. The idea of losing or giving up my free will is unacceptable; in fact, I'll preserve and expand my free will by any and all means possible."

The only rule was that there were no rules.

"However, I enjoy discussing philosophy, so this sounded interesting."

"Interesting," Ghanima replied. a hint of mischief in her tone. "And you do not feel that is a role that you, yourself, are perhaps uniquely suited to fill to in fact push other people towards their own destinies?"

"There has never been a moment in your life where no matter what you did, events cascaded in such a way that it feels like nothing you did mattered, and the outcome was predetermined?"

"There is a difference between fate and a buildup of circumstances that result in an avalanche of consequences," Liliana said, though a smile flickered over her face. "Just because no one intervened in time or in a useful fashion doesn't mean that it was foreordained. If no one takes care of the upkeep of a dam and it breaks, it doesn't mean the river was fated to flood."

She leaned back and gave an idle shrug. "It all comes down to power. The more you have, the larger your locus of control, the more you can shape the course of events towards your liking."

They were available, before and after class!

First day back from CONvergence, please hold for DEAD.

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Destiny & Free Will [Monday, Period 4]

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Talk to Ghanima & Trebor

ooc