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fandomhigh2006-02-15 01:02 pm
professor-lyman.livejournal.com) wrote in fandomhigh2006-02-15 01:02 pm
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US Government (Wednesday, February 15, 4th period)
"More on the President today," Josh said. "You know--the guy who, should he die tragically, would currently be replaced by a man who accidentally sprayed a 78-year-old guy with bird shot." He rolled his eyes. "There's not enough force behind the word 'stupid' to sufficiently convey my thoughts on this latest news, and I worked for a President who rode a bicycle into a tree."
He picked up his notes. "Anyway. The President, in addition to his work as commander-in-chief and chief executive, also serves a few other important roles. Today we talk about his position as chief negotiator and guy with the veto stamp.
"Article II Section 2 of the Constitution gives the President the power to make treaties with the 'advice and consent' of two-thirds of the Senate. The House of Representatives has no authority in these sorts of matters." Josh smirked. "Which totally makes them cranky. Not that I care. They deserve to be cranky. Normally legislation, you might remember, only needs to pass with a simple majority in both houses. Because of the allegedly binding powers of a treaty, the Founders wanted a bit more oomph behind a vote on that sort of matter. Thus the two-thirds vote requirement."
Josh looked around the classroom. "However, throughout history, the President has also made 'international agreements', either through congressional-executive agreements--CEAs--that are ratified with only a majority vote in both houses of Congress, or through executive agreements made by the president alone. As long as he doesn't call it a 'treaty', the Supreme Court has considered these agreements to be valid and any disagreements would be a political question for the executive and legislative branches to work out between themselves. Possibly with mud wrestling." He looked up. "Okay, that last part might've just been implied. Internationally, no one gives a damn about the procedure that US might've used to agree to the treaty or agreement or whatever--they're all considered equally binding under international law. Under domestic law, it does make a difference. If the United States has passed a treaty, it can use the power in that treaty to legislate an issue that would normally fall under the province of the various states. If it was just an executive agreement, well, not so much in terms of how it can affect the way states operate. If this is at all interesting to you, I'd suggest reading the Supreme Court case Missouri v. Holland." He raised an eyebrow. "Though if it is, I'd seriously consider finding yourself some kind of hobby or life or something. Unless you want end up like m..." he coughed. "Like people I know."
He glanced back down at his notes. "The US takes a different view on international and domestic law than many other nations, particularly in Europe. They tend to view international agreements as superseding national law--we make international agreements part of US federal law." He raised an eyebrow. "Which means that as a law, Congress can then modify or repeal treaties by legislative action, even if violates the treaty under international law. The new changes would then be enforced by US courts entirely independent of what the hell the international community might consider to still be valid. Additionally, if an international agreement is inconsistent with the Constitution, it's void under US domestic law."
He looked around the classroom. "So is everyone's brain good and broken now? Good. Moving on to the power of the veto."
He scrawled the word onto the board behind him. "Veto is Latin for I forbid. Article I requires that all bills passed by a majority vote of both houses of Congress be sent to the President for his approval. If he returns a bill to the Congress within ten days, not counting Sundays, the bill doesn't become law. That's a veto. There's a stamp and everything. If the President does nothing in those ten days the bill becomes a law just as if he had signed it in one of the Rose Garden ceremonies that CNN shows like anyone wants to watch a bunch of politicians congratulate themselves and pick up their used pens." He looked up. "However. If the Congress sends up a bill and then adjourns--the President can choose not to sign the bill and it's considered vetoed without the possibility of an override vote. That's called a pocket veto."
He ran a hand through his hair. "Okay. A veto can be overridden by a two-thirds vote in both houses of Congress, but we'll get to that when we get to Congress. There's also a thing called the line-item veto, which would allow for the President to just strike out certain parts of laws and veto them. The President asked for in his State of the Union address." He rolled his eyes. "Apparently forgetting that is was given to President Clinton in 1996 and then ruled unconstitutional by the Supreme Court in a 6-3 decision. So unless he's asking for an amendment to the Constitution, which takes a little bit more than his buddies in the House of Representatives thinking it's a good idea, yeah, not gonna happen."
He sat down. "So. Questions? Comments? Witty stories? Funny anecdotes?"
He picked up his notes. "Anyway. The President, in addition to his work as commander-in-chief and chief executive, also serves a few other important roles. Today we talk about his position as chief negotiator and guy with the veto stamp.
"Article II Section 2 of the Constitution gives the President the power to make treaties with the 'advice and consent' of two-thirds of the Senate. The House of Representatives has no authority in these sorts of matters." Josh smirked. "Which totally makes them cranky. Not that I care. They deserve to be cranky. Normally legislation, you might remember, only needs to pass with a simple majority in both houses. Because of the allegedly binding powers of a treaty, the Founders wanted a bit more oomph behind a vote on that sort of matter. Thus the two-thirds vote requirement."
Josh looked around the classroom. "However, throughout history, the President has also made 'international agreements', either through congressional-executive agreements--CEAs--that are ratified with only a majority vote in both houses of Congress, or through executive agreements made by the president alone. As long as he doesn't call it a 'treaty', the Supreme Court has considered these agreements to be valid and any disagreements would be a political question for the executive and legislative branches to work out between themselves. Possibly with mud wrestling." He looked up. "Okay, that last part might've just been implied. Internationally, no one gives a damn about the procedure that US might've used to agree to the treaty or agreement or whatever--they're all considered equally binding under international law. Under domestic law, it does make a difference. If the United States has passed a treaty, it can use the power in that treaty to legislate an issue that would normally fall under the province of the various states. If it was just an executive agreement, well, not so much in terms of how it can affect the way states operate. If this is at all interesting to you, I'd suggest reading the Supreme Court case Missouri v. Holland." He raised an eyebrow. "Though if it is, I'd seriously consider finding yourself some kind of hobby or life or something. Unless you want end up like m..." he coughed. "Like people I know."
He glanced back down at his notes. "The US takes a different view on international and domestic law than many other nations, particularly in Europe. They tend to view international agreements as superseding national law--we make international agreements part of US federal law." He raised an eyebrow. "Which means that as a law, Congress can then modify or repeal treaties by legislative action, even if violates the treaty under international law. The new changes would then be enforced by US courts entirely independent of what the hell the international community might consider to still be valid. Additionally, if an international agreement is inconsistent with the Constitution, it's void under US domestic law."
He looked around the classroom. "So is everyone's brain good and broken now? Good. Moving on to the power of the veto."
He scrawled the word onto the board behind him. "Veto is Latin for I forbid. Article I requires that all bills passed by a majority vote of both houses of Congress be sent to the President for his approval. If he returns a bill to the Congress within ten days, not counting Sundays, the bill doesn't become law. That's a veto. There's a stamp and everything. If the President does nothing in those ten days the bill becomes a law just as if he had signed it in one of the Rose Garden ceremonies that CNN shows like anyone wants to watch a bunch of politicians congratulate themselves and pick up their used pens." He looked up. "However. If the Congress sends up a bill and then adjourns--the President can choose not to sign the bill and it's considered vetoed without the possibility of an override vote. That's called a pocket veto."
He ran a hand through his hair. "Okay. A veto can be overridden by a two-thirds vote in both houses of Congress, but we'll get to that when we get to Congress. There's also a thing called the line-item veto, which would allow for the President to just strike out certain parts of laws and veto them. The President asked for in his State of the Union address." He rolled his eyes. "Apparently forgetting that is was given to President Clinton in 1996 and then ruled unconstitutional by the Supreme Court in a 6-3 decision. So unless he's asking for an amendment to the Constitution, which takes a little bit more than his buddies in the House of Representatives thinking it's a good idea, yeah, not gonna happen."
He sat down. "So. Questions? Comments? Witty stories? Funny anecdotes?"
Sign in (Government, February 15)
Re: Sign in (Government, February 15)
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During the lecture
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Re: During the lecture
Re: During the lecture
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Re: During the lecture
wittystories about treaties. But, y'know, classified.She took her usual good standard of notes, and tried not to think about the miserable Baltic, or her first interplanetry negotiations.
Re: During the lecture
Re: During the lecture
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After class
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He pulled up his notes. "And the last two classes have been about the presidency: how you can become president (http://community.livejournal.com/fandomhigh/617554.html#cutid1), and a lot about being commander in chief (http://community.livejournal.com/fandomhigh/625929.html#cutid1)."
He pointed to the relevent passages in the government book. "Read those sections and you'll be all caught up."
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OOC
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Re: OOC
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Now people know not to screw with Dick.
Re: OOC
Huh. Concept.
Re: OOC
Well, two situations. But still.