Magical Theory 101 (Monday, 01/30/2006, 5th Period)

[romanywitch]

CLASS IS CLOSED
The door, as usual, is closed in order to minimize disruptions from the hallway, and Jenny's got coffee and doughnuts sitting up on her desk by the sign-in sheet. "Okay, guys, last week before our quiz, we talked just a little about divination and how to tell the future, plus everyone got a chance to practice divination by doing their own tarot reading. Check out this handout which is totally not the same link from last week's quiz if you're interested in some of the wacky ways that people have been known to practice the divinatory arts in the past. But here's another, slightly more scholarly handout.

Divination presumes that some sort of supernatural force--like fate or destiny--exists and that it influences everyone's future. For example, the Greeks had the three Moirae, also known as the Fates--Clothos, who spun out the thread measuring the length of your life; Lachesis who wove your thread into the tapestry and therefore dictated the events of your life; and Atropos, who decided when you were gonna die. She had the scissors and snipped your thread when you were done. The Greeks? Big on unshakeable destiny. Here's a handout with a synopsis of the story of Oedipus Rex. Guy was foretold as someone who was going to kill his father and marry his mother. Which, gotta say? Ew. Back then and now, ew. Everything he and his folks did to avoid the prophecy coming true only brought the prophecy into fulfillment.

So. Do you believe in the future as immutable, or changeable? Check over your handouts, and let's talk about it."


OOC: I do not have webmail access during the day; the only address I have access to is my work e-mail (which, for obvious reasons, I don't have LJ comment notifications going to). If you need something from me, please ping me in the voice mail or e-mail links below. I will try to check that once in the morning and once in the afternoon, depending on how busy I am at work. I'll check it at least once every morning; however. When I get home at night, I don't log onto LJ or e-mail until after my son has been put to bed around 7:30 or 8 CST (on most nights; however, there are a few exceptions). My IM is in my userinfo and I'll make a point of being accessible on it when I'm at home and online. Tuesday nights I am generally inaccessible; I might be online after my dance lesson, but I need at least one night for non-FH time. Luckily, none of Jenny's classes are run on Tuesdays.

Useful Links:
Ms. Calendar's Voice Mail
Ms. Calendar's E-Mail
And just because I'm in love with it, Godchecker.

{{OOC: OCD comment threads going up shortly are up.}}

Comments

Discussion - Today's Topic: Is the future immutable or changeable?

[romanywitch]

...

Re: Discussion - Today's Topic: Is the future immutable or changeable?

[demonbelthazor]

"A little of both," Bel said. "You can try to change the future, but there are some things you just can't change due to forces beyond your control."

Re: Discussion - Today's Topic: Is the future immutable or changeable?

[romanywitch]

"Are those forces supernatural, do you think?" asked Jenny. "Or just coincidence, like something random brought about by human events?"

Re: Discussion - Today's Topic: Is the future immutable or changeable?

[demonbelthazor]

"In a world like where I come from," Bel said, "there's so much magic that some things are probably destined and can't be changed." He paused, thoughtful. "Though I suppose it matters if you believe who's telling you what that destiny is."

Re: Discussion - Today's Topic: Is the future immutable or changeable?

[fh_jackass]

"Changeable," Logan said. "Otherwise, what's the point?"

Re: Discussion - Today's Topic: Is the future immutable or changeable?

[romanywitch]

"Personally?" asked Jenny. "I gotta wonder too. So you're thinking your life is not dependent on the whims of the gods. Or whoever's out there. But put yourself in the shoes of, say, one of the ancient Greeks. What do you think they might've thought the point was?"

Re: Discussion - Today's Topic: Is the future immutable or changeable?

[fh_jackass]

Logan tapped his pen against his notes. "Will of the gods?" he guessed. "I mean, if you believe in that sort of stuff, that'd make sense."

Re: Discussion - Today's Topic: Is the future immutable or changeable?

[absolutesnark]

"If there's enough warning, like from a premonition, it's possible to change the future," Piper said quietly.

Re: Sign-In

[romanywitch]

"Chalking up another in the 'disagree' category," said Jenny, nodding at Piper. "Did you want to go further there, or did you want to just leave that one lie?"

She was starting to get the idea that the Halliwell crowd had a few personal issues. One of these days, Jenny really needed to start listening to the radio.

Re: Discussion - Today's Topic: Is the future immutable or changeable?

[krycek-rat.livejournal.com]

"I think you're in control of your own destiny or, as Logan asked, what's the point? Chalking it up to immutability seems like a handy way to shed responsibility."

Re: Discussion - Today's Topic: Is the future immutable or changeable?

[romanywitch]

Jenny nodded. "Thanks, Alex. That's a good point. Does anyone want to comment on that?"

Re: Discussion - Today's Topic: Is the future immutable or changeable?

[soldtoarmenians]

Xander was nodding in agreement. "Just because you get a hint of what might happen, who says that's not supposed to kick your ass into gear to change stuff? Maybe it's a warning, not a ... sentence of Doom Doom Doomedy Doom, but you'll never know if you just assume you can't do anything."

Re: Discussion - Today's Topic: Is the future immutable or changeable?

[upforachase.livejournal.com]

"I would love to think that the future is changeable," Cordy said, reddening slightly. "But I have seen so many prophecies that I just don't know anymore. And some of them were full of crap, but some of them definitely were true. So maybe a little bit of both, but where is the line drawn?"

Re: Discussion - Today's Topic: Is the future immutable or changeable?

[romanywitch]

"I'm a big believer in the changeable future camp myself," said Jenny. Oooh, 3 PM, I need to get lunch. Blood sugar dropping, so deep thought? Not happening. "I've seen prophecies come true, but not like how anyone thought they were going to. I guess if you're wondering where the line is drawn, you ask the guys who write the prophecies? Good question, though. You might want to think about this as a topic for your final project, Cordelia."

Re: Discussion - Today's Topic: Is the future immutable or changeable?

[upforachase.livejournal.com]

"I think sometimes the guys who wrote the prophecies are a little unreachable," Cordy said, with a grin. "Yeah, this is pretty interesting. I'll definitely consider it as a topic."

Re: Discussion - Today's Topic: Is the future immutable or changeable?

[sakuracchyan.livejournal.com]

Sakura takes a moment before the concept of 'discussion' sinks in. She finishes her doughnut and ponders for a moment. "Changeable, I'd say... I mean, there are certain things you can't do anything about... But for the most part, your future depends on how you do things." Even as she speaks, she's not entirely focused. She's a little funny to watch, truthfully, she can't keep her eyes focused on any one thing -- she looks at her desk, then at Jenny, then back at her desk and then to the floor.

Re: Discussion - Today's Topic: Is the future immutable or changeable?

[romanywitch]

"So it sounds like you agree with Cordelia, then," said Jenny. She didn't want to push for specifics, with her student so obviously uneasy. "Do you have any ideas on where the line between predestination and choice could be drawn?"

Re: Discussion - Today's Topic: Is the future immutable or changeable?

[soldtoarmenians]

"A little of both?" Xander said. "Maybe not fixed in stone, but definitely predictable, because I've seen people do it. I think it's a crock from both ends, though, to say it can't b changed at all. Krycek's right, not trying to change something bad is a cop-out. And if you're the Big Guns, the gods or the powers that be or whatever, and you set things up so only one thing is gonna happen... isn't that just a way to stick somebody not you as the fall guy? Like, with {shudder} Oedipus, or even take something like the New Testament -- if all that stuff was written out in advance, how is it that the gods still get to be pissed at Oedipus or Judas?"

Re: Discussion - Today's Topic: Is the future immutable or changeable?

[romanywitch]

"I think those guys automatically expected the gods to be ticked at them," said Jenny. "But maybe the powers influenced events and yet the ultimate determinations were made through free will? I could see the authors not necessarily wanting to believe that the bad endings were caused by the people themselves. Easier to blame the gods than the individuals. What do you think of that interpretation?"

Re: Discussion - Today's Topic: Is the future immutable or changeable?

[soldtoarmenians]

Xander considered it, chomping on a doughnut. "Well, winners write history, right? so yeah, I guess they could be blaming the big guys for something the humans could've changed. But it's not like we don't know there's been some real gods, or things that said they were gods, who were into yanking humanity's chain, too."

Re: Discussion - Today's Topic: Is the future immutable or changeable?

[maias-notebook.livejournal.com]

Maia shifted uncomfortably in her seat at the discussion topic. Sighing a little and bracing for Ms. Calendar's attack she raised her hand. "I think its both."

Re: Discussion - Today's Topic: Is the future immutable or changeable?

[romanywitch]

Jenny nodded. "You're taking a pretty popular view in class today. You want to give me a bit of a highlight on how you think that works, Maia?"

Re: Discussion - Today's Topic: Is the future immutable or changeable?

[maias-notebook.livejournal.com]

"Well some things cannot be changed, they are clear. Like how people will die or when someone is pregnant if the baby is a boy or a girl. But other things, the things that are not so clear, they are able to be changed. For instance if a person is going to be a doctor or a lawyer when they grow up." Maia brushed her hair back from her face. "Not everything is set in stone and not everything can be changed once the events have been set into motion."

Re: Discussion - Today's Topic: Is the future immutable or changeable?

[the4thsister.livejournal.com]

"I think some things in our future are immutable, I mean I happen to believe my destiny is pretty much written for what I'm going to do my future, but I don't think everything in my life is unchangeable, there's still free will in life, and how I deal with my destiny is up to me."

Re: Discussion - Today's Topic: Is the future immutable or changeable?

[romanywitch]

"That's a very good way of balancing the idea of free will versus destiny, Paige," said Jenny.