fandomhigh | Magical Theory (Wednesday, 1/18/2006, 4th Period)

Entry tags:

magical theory

Magical Theory (Wednesday, 1/18/2006, 4th Period)

"Okay, guys, so last time? We watched 'The Craft.'" Jenny grinned. "It's not one of my favorite movies, but it does exemplify one of the modern stereotypes of witches. This week we're not so much talking about theory of magic, but how the world perceives people with magical abilities. We can get some good theory out of it too, depending on how the discussion goes. Unfortunately, with perception? Not so many movies about demons or seers to use as examples, or we'd do more than one movie." ~~We are not watching My Demon Lover in class. Ever.~~

So. A few things that you guys brought up that we can discuss? Written on the board."

On the board -
How do you feel about the portrayal of witchcraft as evil? Any of you guys run into a witch using black magic?
Which stereotype in the movie bothered you the most? Why?
Covens? What kind of ideas did you get about them from this movie?
Feel like trashing the movie? Go for it.
Any other questions on the movie? Ask them.

OOC: Due to the occasional intrusion of RL for me and for everyone else, I'm going to change my posting policy a bit. I'm leaving each class open the entire week for comments, not just 'til the next class session. Hopefully this will make things easier all around. I'll close them up when absentee reports are due in at the office. Please let me know if you have any questions on this.

OCD comment threads ~~coming soon~~ are finished, so comment away.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

...

Belthazor signs in.

Xander signed in, slightly caffeinated due to having finally discovered the TA lounge -- and the coffee contained therein.

Kiki signs in.

Cordy signs in.

Logan signed in.

Paige signs in

Piper signs in.

Maia signed in

Krycek signed in.

...

"Sure, witches use black magic all the time," Bel said, leaning back in his chair. "It's more common than you think. Usually starts small, like some spell for self-interest. Seems easy and harmless at first. Then they do a spell to get revenge. Before you know it they're batting for team evil."

Xander coughed. "I don't think doing a spell to make things better for yourself is necssarily a one way ticket to hell - though maybe it is with witches where you come from? But I met a witch who was hurting her kid to get what she wanted - I think when you start taking something away from somebody else, that's where it gets into dirty pool."

"I'd like to ask the definition of 'black magic,'" Kiki says. "For opinions on it to mean anything, we all need to make sure we're talking about the same thing.

"I don't agree, for example, that using magic for yourself is evil - not any more so than any other act that is motivated by self-interest, and, to be honest, most people are ultimately motivated by self-interest. Magic is a form of energy, and it's all in how you choose to use it that determines whether it is good or bad; it's not inherently good or evil. It's all in how it is used that determines that, and that choice is up to only the wielder. Even the vilest forms of magic," Kiki's voice falters a little, "like necromancy, can serve a useful purpose, although, true, most people who engage in necromancy aren't really examples of upstanding citizens."

Xander nodded. "Who makes the call on what self-interest is? If you do something to help somebody else, are you really doing it to make yourself feel good? And if you are, so what, if it helps them?"

"What if they don't want help? Then it's just intrusive."

"True. But let's say you're a witch or wizard or something and you..." Xander scratched at his chin thoughtfully. "...accidentally get a friend hurt, say. Not on purpose, but it's totally your fault. If you try to heal 'em by magic, and they're on board that train and waving a hometown flag out the window, is it ok because you're helping somebody else, or do you get smacked by the big magic cops in the sky because part if it's about making yourself feel less guilty?"

Cordy raises an eyebrow at Xander. "Um...I don't know. But I would think it would be okay if you genuinely wanted to heal that person, though. It would be partly to ease your own guilt, but about the healing too, right?"

"I don't think it's the intentions that matter, but the results," Logan said. "Road to hell and all that. Nobody's totally altruistic, anyway. What matters is if you genuinely helped that person. If they were on board with it and it didn't hurt anyone else, than what does it matter why you did it?"

Cordy nodded. "Yeah, I totally agree."

Kiki nods. "Sure. I use my magic to run my delivery service, but since I charge a fee, obviously there's some amount of self-interest involved."

"Where I'm from, personal gain is forbidden to good witches," Bel explained. "It's not like one little spell brings eternal damnation, though. It's just a first step for some. Seems harmless at first, then next thing you know, you're taking away free will."

Xander looked... discomfited... at the mention of taking away free will, but only for a second; then he snorted. "So it's like what, a gateway drug? Here kid, have a little of this magic stuff, won't hurt anybody, and the first one's free?"

Bel grinned. "Something like that I guess. It's what separates good magic from dark magic."

"Is there something about the magic that affects your judgement, or just the heady rush of having power others don't?" Krycek tapped his pen against his notebook, curious. "Because if not, then it being a 'first step' seems to be more of a personal willpower issue. Punishing all of the white magic practitioners because some of them have gone overboard into black magic."

"I've never seen anyone use black magic before, but that doesn't mean it's not possible. However, I still don't like the way this movie portrayed witchcraft as evil. That's what leads to harsh stereotypes about witches," Piper said quietly.

Maia glanced at Piper and nodded. "I agree with Piper, movies like that lead to harsh sterotypes of witches."

Maia glanced at Piper and nodded. "I agree with Piper, movies like that lead to harsh stereotypes of witches." Maia thought of Phoebe, Paige and Piper, they were good witches she would hate for something in a film to make people turn against them.

...

Lana stops in to see Ms. Calendar after class. "Hi, Ms. Calendar? My name is Lana Lang. Angel said he talked to you about being the faculty advisor for the club for people from weird hometowns? I was wondering if we'd be able to hold the club meetings in your classroom, say Tuesday evenings?"

"Hey, Lana," said Jenny, grinning. "Yeah, Angel mentioned it. You guys came up with the idea jointly, right? It's a good one. Glad to see you're going ahead with the club thing. But Tuesdays? Unfortunately, not so good for me. I've got this whole obligatory phone call to the family I do then."

OOC: Tuesdays are the nights when I'm least available due to RL committments, unfortunately. If we can do it after 8:30 CST, I'm good, though.

{ooc - for whatever it's worth, aka very little, Xander's got an obvious interest in at least putting in an appearance every so often too, but Tuesdays and Thursdays are my radio-silence nights due to sharing a dial-up line.}

[OOC: How about Mondays?]

{{Mondays are cool! (And fwiw, if Tue/Thurs is better for you/Jenny/most of the people interested in it, don't worry about me. I can figure out a way around it or come up with an in-game reason Xander can't make it. He's not exactly essential to the club's existence, and it wouldn't be his only activity; he's already got I-Club and TA-ing.}}

[OOC: Mondays work for me - just she's already doign Self-defense club on Wednesday and Fridays... not so good. ;) So, if Ms. Calendar can do Monday's we'll go with that!]

OOC: Works! And sorry it took so long to get back to you!

"Would Mondays be a better time?"

[Wednesdays is self-defense which Lana attends.]

"Mondays are just perfect, Lana," said Jenny. "Just gimme a holler when you want the first meeting. I have office hours Tuesday and Friday, and feel free to drop by after any of my classes. 'Kay?"

"Thanks, Ms. Calendar. I should know better after the Clubs Fair today. I'll see you soon!" Lana smiled and headed off.

OOC: Xander has a comment too.

...

Psst. It's Wednesday, not Monday.

Shoot. Thank you! *goes to fix*

NP. Although, it's Thursday here, just to confuse you even more.

*is duly confused* Shame there are all kinds of good reasons we can't kill the date line. :)

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

Magical Theory (Wednesday, 1/18/2006, 4th Period)

Sign-In

Re: Sign-In

Re: Sign-In

Re: Sign-In

Re: Sign-In

Re: Sign-In

Re: Sign-In

Re: Sign-In

Re: Sign-In

Re: Sign-In

Discussion - The Craft, Sterotypes, & Other Issues

Re: Discussion - The Craft, Sterotypes, & Other Issues

Re: Discussion - The Craft, Sterotypes, & Other Issues

Re: Discussion - The Craft, Sterotypes, & Other Issues

Re: Discussion - The Craft, Sterotypes, & Other Issues

Re: Discussion - The Craft, Sterotypes, & Other Issues

Re: Discussion - The Craft, Sterotypes, & Other Issues

Re: Discussion - The Craft, Sterotypes, & Other Issues

Re: Discussion - The Craft, Sterotypes, & Other Issues

Re: Discussion - The Craft, Sterotypes, & Other Issues

Re: Discussion - The Craft, Sterotypes, & Other Issues

Re: Discussion - The Craft, Sterotypes, & Other Issues

Re: Discussion - The Craft, Sterotypes, & Other Issues

Re: Discussion - The Craft, Sterotypes, & Other Issues

Re: Discussion - The Craft, Sterotypes, & Other Issues

Re: Discussion - The Craft, Sterotypes, & Other Issues

Re: Discussion - The Craft, Sterotypes, & Other Issues

Re: Discussion - The Craft, Sterotypes, & Other Issues

After Class

Re: After Class

Re: After Class

Re: After Class

Re: After Class

Re: After Class

Re: After Class

Re: After Class

Re: After Class

Re: After Class

Re: After Class

Re: After Class

OOC

Re: OOC

Re: OOC

Re: OOC

Re: OOC