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Criminal Justice Class 22

Rory sat at Tick's desk, nervously eyeing the students and occasionally fiddling with the collar of her turtleneck. She looked exceptionally tired.

"Um, okay. Professor Tick's not here, so I'm your sub. Please sign in here," she said, pointing to a clipboard on the desk.

She stood and walked out in front of the desk, wringing her hands. "Last time you met, I know you talked about redemption and reform. Neither of those can happen without forgiveness."

She faced the students, and looked at them each in turn.

"What is the evidence that you require to forgive someone? What do they need to do to prove that they're worthy? And moreover, since one person's acceptance of an apology can be seen as completely fair and just, while another feels that the perpetrator deserves a larger punishment, how does the idea of forgiveness fit into society and most especially, the judical system? If the law enforcement officials choose to forgive a person of their wrongdoings, are others expected to follow suit? And what if they don't?"

"Discuss. Oh, and your extra credit is: bring me either surfboard wax, or a book you think I've never read. If I have? No extra credit. Surfboard wax is probably easier."

[ooc: Several things - first off, I apologize that this is posted so much later than you're used to seeing. Secondly, still not getting email notifications, so I might be slow replying. And third - I did find a list online of every book Rory's been mentioned reading in canon. I shan't simply make things up.]

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Anakin thought for a long time, dwelling on the recording Logan had let him listen to.

"I believe forgiveness and justice should remain separate issues," he finally said. "Emotions have a tendency to muddle things. Whether the law enforcement officers, or even the victims, forgive the being who inflicted harm, the point is, and what the judicial system is for, is to provide balance for the harm." He stared at his boots. "On the other side of the equation, the judicial system is there to also provide balance in punishment--how violated the victim feels should not encourage the system to punish the offender more than necessary."

He scowled. "As for the evidence I need to forgive someone? There needs to be some serious acts of repentence. Words just don't suffice." He tapped his hands on his desk. "And some acts are just unforgivable. When something evil has happened, and the perpetrator has knowingly chosen to do it, well..." he coughed. "I've been taught that once you go down that dark path, it will dominate your life forever. Some things you just can't come back from, no matter how sorry you might be."

Rory considered this thoughtfully.

"Okay. What about in the cases where the person committed the act under the influence? They either have no recollection of the event - like in vehicular manslaughter while under the influence, for instance - or else they claim demonic possession, or something like that."

Rory's very obviously trying to keep her emotions in check. She seems to struggle with a thought for a minute, and then smiles somewhat wickedly. (Wickedly for Rory, anyway.)

"For instance, we all know of a student who claimed she was possessed, or something like that, a short while ago. Should she be automatically forgiven for her wrongdoings simply because it wasn't 'her'?"

Anakin frowned. "Ultimately you are still responsible for your own actions, regardless of what kind of influence you may be under. I managed to make a complete ass of myself not so long ago thanks to some gremlin poison, but it was still me. I'm responsible for what I did, even if I don't remember it, or control it."

He glared at nothing. "There must be some personal accountability."

"So, what kind of amends do you make in a case like that?" Rory asked quietly. "In spite of it not being your consciousness, should you be punished for whatever happened because it was your body? And, to play devil's advocate, how can we be sure that these people who claim they weren't their own person aren't lying?"

Anakin stared at the desk for a while. "Where I come from, I'd feel obligated to take responsibility and the punishment for whatever I might've done, even if I wasn't in control. The justice system might see things differently. We have pretty sophisticated equipment to detect chemical influences on the system, but demonic possession isn't exactly something that comes up." He looked grim. "In the absence of proof of possession, I'd be inclined to believe the being was lying, but I'm not exactly known for my 'glass is half-full' outlook on life."

Rory smiled at that. "Well, I am known for that, and I'd still be disinclined to believe them, unless they went to extraordinary lengths to prove otherwise. However, if the person in question is pardoned in the eyes of the law, how do we - those who are forced to deal with this ruling - supposed to react? We might not grant our forgiveness, but what if our nonforgiveness actually conflicts with the rules set down by those in charge?"

Rory's voice was soft and if one didn't know her very well, it might seem as though she was simply brainstorming aloud.

Those who knew her better, however, might detect a certain unfamiliar coldness in her features.

Anakin, who knew her better, quirked up an eyebrow.

"Interesting point. I'd say that it's a poorly developed justice system that would think that any ruling, no matter how just or unjust, would be able to make beings forgive the wrongdoer. There can't be regulations on feelings or thoughts--only actions. And in a purely hypothetical case where someone is allowed to get away with a violent, dark crime--or a series of them--by claiming that they weren't in control of their faculties, well..." Anakin's eyes went hard. "Watching such a being--or having others watch such a being--to make sure that they weren't heading back into old patterns would seem just to me. The justice system might have moved onto other matters, after all, but the wrongdoer, and those who live with it, must be given some time to adjust."

He gave her a sympathetic look.

Rory bit her lip and nodded, shifting slightly and folding her arms around herself.

"So are you suggesting that in a case like that, vigilantes of a sort should be counted on? Friends of the victim or victims, and those who were harmed themselves could, conceivably, ensure that the wrongdoer doesn't repeat his or her own past actions? Do you think this is more effective if they know they're being watched, or less?"

[ooc: Now with spellcheck!]

"I wouldn't think of it as vigilantes," Anakin said slowly. "Because the justice system should be allowed to work. Maybe a bit more like self-appointed parole officers. Not to enact justice on their own--unless that's part of their job, of course--but to keep an eye out to make sure that nothing is going wrong with the alleged rehabilitation."

His hand twitched out like he wanted to comfort her, but he settled for tapping his pen on his desk instead. "I think knowing that you're watched has a certain cooling effect on behavior just in general. I see no problem in letting the wrongdoer know he is being watched, but even if he didn't know, he should probably be assuming it anyway." He shrugged. "Where I come from, if the criminals aren't shipped off to a planetary prison, they're given a computer chip that tracks their progress. We'd like to believe in rehabilitation, but 10,000 generations have taught us that some beings are just irredeemably evil."

"And if the wrongdoer does fall back on old habits, what would these 'parole officers,' as you put it, do? Take them to the authorities, whoever that may be?" Rory asked, arching a brow and trying for a convincing smile.

"We have tracking devices and things like that here, too," she explained quietly. "Ankle monitors that ensure that criminals stay where they're supposed to, and that kind of thing. And I'm sure there are magical wards of that sort as well. I'd like to think that they aren't neccessary, either, but so far, trusting in people's innate goodness has proven to be a rather stupid idea."

"You have to," Anakin said firmly, "or else the whole system falls apart. Even a Sith Lord--the ultimate evil in my universe--would need to be brought up for justice. He couldn't just be killed out of hand."

Rory nodded. "And naturally, people have tempers and emotions that can cloud their judgement, so while the idea would be that yes, of course they need to be taken to the authorities...that's not often what happens."

Anakin thought back to Obi-Wan's description of his encounter with Darth Maul. "True. But I don't think I could do it. Or watch while others were doing it." He looked uncomfortable. "Maybe given the right circumstances ~~like being egged on while I'm angry~~, I could do it. I'd like to think I'm better than that, though."

"I like to think I'm above punching someone in the face and throwing breakfast food at them," Rory said without thinking. Her brows shot up as she realized what she'd said. "Um, not that I've done that, of course."

Anakin hid a smile behind his hand. "Of course not. That would be wrong. If incredibly satisfying."

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Criminal Justice Class 22

Re: Discussion - Forgiveness?

Re: Discussion - Forgiveness?

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Re: Discussion - Forgiveness?

Re: Discussion - Forgiveness?

Re: Discussion - Forgiveness?

Re: Discussion - Forgiveness?

Re: Discussion - Forgiveness?

Re: Discussion - Forgiveness?

Re: Discussion - Forgiveness?

Re: Discussion - Forgiveness?

Re: Discussion - Forgiveness?

Re: Discussion - Forgiveness?