http://godinakilt.livejournal.com/ ([identity profile] godinakilt.livejournal.com) wrote in [community profile] fandomhigh2005-11-08 05:58 pm
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Arthurian Traditions for Tuesday

"All right, class, today we'll be NaNoing like mad continuing our discussion of the role of women in Arthurian legends," Camulus begins without preamble. "We were talking about the segregation of the sexes in the City of Legions and how the chivalric code was tied to this." He grins. "Today we will be talking about how women are, in short, the reason for all the evil in this world. Not that I, myself, have anything against women. I happen to be an equal opportunity overlord. However, in Arthur's world women were the clue that held society together and functioning. More specifically, it was the virtue, chastity, and self-control of women that kept society functioning. You can imagine what happened when the women gave into their, ah, animal desires.

"I suppose this needs some explaining. Arthur's queen was Guinevere, who was the pinnacle of women in the City of Legions. Arthur also had a knight named Launcelot. Let's just say that Barbossa would be reporting with glee what these two got up to behind Arthur's back. Of course, Arthur found out and Launcelot was banished. Some stories say that Guinevere was burned at the stake for her adultery, but that is a very recent addition to the legend that isn't in any of the materials we work with. After Launcelot was gone, Arthur also had to leave, as he was called away by the Pope, who I believe is the First Prime of the Christian God. While he was on his way to see this man, his nephew seized power for himself. But more importantly, he seized Guinevere. Adultery number two on her part. She escaped Mordred and became a nun, but the important thing is that it is the so-called Rape of Guinevere that causes Arthur to come stampeding back to his death. Guinevere is also the reason that Launcelot and a good number of Arthur's knights are unable to aid him in this final battle, in which he dies.

"The begetting of Mordred himself is the sin of woman, as well. Mordred was not only Arthur's nephew, he was his son by Morgan le Fay. Morgan made sure the whole court knew about this relationship, as well. Morgan's bitterness was supposedly caused by being cast out of the court following an affair with Merlin, Arthur's chief advisor, who was also a wizard or a druid.

"Why then do we care? Because all this came to a head in the poem Sir Gawain and the Green Knight, which we will be looking at next." He frowns down at the books stacked on his desk. "I couldn't find a suitable modern translation for you to read, but I can get one. I'll leave it in the classroom and you can pick it up sometime before next class."

He looks up at the class. "No homework, but I do have a question - what is the connection between the Holy Grail and Guinevere?"

[[So true about lack of Gawain online. I'll still be looking, but it may be in the form of scans of one of my books. Seperate post to follow.]]
sensethevisions: (Default)

[personal profile] sensethevisions 2005-11-08 11:14 pm (UTC)(link)
Phoebe thought about this for a moment.

"Guinevere was supposedly the perfect woman who wasn't supposed to be touched by anyone but the king. The Grail is an object that was said to grant magical things to those who could find it. Both are unttainable, both are symbols of woman and perfection in some of the early stories."

OOC - Gawain text

[identity profile] prof-methos.livejournal.com 2005-11-08 11:24 pm (UTC)(link)
[[http://www.lib.rochester.edu/CAMELOT/sggk.htm

I don't know if this is of use to you. Liked off of http://www.luminarium.org/medlit/gawaintx.htm which had the Middle English texts as well. What, me, a medieval geek? Nah...]]

[identity profile] notstakedyet.livejournal.com 2005-11-09 12:19 am (UTC)(link)
"Hey, teach, sorry I missed you last week," Angelus said. "As for connection... thanks to sickingly romantic ideas like courtly love, ol' Gwen is supposed to be this beautiful inspirational object that all men desire, but in a pure, chaste, and holy way. Ditto the cup of the carpenter."

[identity profile] notstakedyet.livejournal.com 2005-11-09 12:25 am (UTC)(link)
Angelus beams at the praise because he actually likes this class, go fig. "You know, it could be argued that part of the point is that neither one is something you're supposed to have. They work better as inspirations. Bring it in for the day to day and suddenly you've got your female coffee urn screwing your best friend/fuckbuddy. Kinda messy unless you swing that way."

[identity profile] notstakedyet.livejournal.com 2005-11-09 12:41 am (UTC)(link)
Angelus made a note of Camulus's suggestion. "True, but look how well getting a leg over worked out for him. Her too. Which goes back to the idea that it's oh so naughty of us to touch the things that we desire. Which is so very Christian for what amounts to a pagan tale."

[*bows* Consider it reward for the fact that you created a class he actually likes, as opposed to sitting through because he has to]
demonbelthazor: (Default)

[personal profile] demonbelthazor 2005-11-09 12:42 am (UTC)(link)
Belthazor walked into class and took a seat by Phoebe.

[identity profile] valentine-tart.livejournal.com 2005-11-09 12:49 am (UTC)(link)
Beka took a seat near Angelus, since Bel would sit next to Phoebe, and lo the double-dating possibilities were plentiful. She hid the wince from her bruised ribs behind a smirk for Camulus.

"Sorry not to have called back, Camulus. I've been a little busy."

A quick but not insignficant glance at each of Bel, Phoebe, and Angelus, before she continued.

"On one reading, the Grail is the cup of life and of death. It symbolizes rebirth and renewal. Guenevere as the 'first woman' of Arthur's court was the symbol of all feminity. Her fall was the fall of all. In this way Guenevere is a tarnished Grail. But she is also the Grail itself, not a woman whose desires and needs matter, but a symbol of the cycle of life who, by failing in her symbolic role, disrupted the entirety of the court."

[identity profile] notstakedyet.livejournal.com 2005-11-09 12:55 am (UTC)(link)
Angelus snickered appreciatively at Camulus's comment. "Could bring you up to speed some day if you liked. Short version is they're big into telling people not having something is the best way to live. Which is a great way to brainwash the populace into enjoying the fact that most of them are the have nots."

[identity profile] valentine-tart.livejournal.com 2005-11-09 12:57 am (UTC)(link)
Beka tossed Bel a note that said:

Did you hear what Angelus said? (http://www.livejournal.com/community/fandomhigh/336793.html?thread=16198809#t16198809)

[identity profile] notstakedyet.livejournal.com 2005-11-09 12:59 am (UTC)(link)
"Can't fault the logic," Angelus agreed. "Also everything's a sin, and the only way you get forgiven is by going through them. Plus God hates you. He might love you some day if you're good and pure enough but - " he waved a dismissive hand " - can't be bothered with the effort m'self."
demonbelthazor: (Default)

[personal profile] demonbelthazor 2005-11-09 01:00 am (UTC)(link)
Belthazor wrote back:

We're not so he can't...right?

[identity profile] valentine-tart.livejournal.com 2005-11-09 01:00 am (UTC)(link)
Beka arched an eyebrow. "Being typically female, and therefore a Grail figure myself, I'd hate to be wrong in anyway."

[identity profile] valentine-tart.livejournal.com 2005-11-09 01:02 am (UTC)(link)
Beka shrugged.

He could? And the difference between us not being and being is the difference between a fireball and a...

[identity profile] valentine-tart.livejournal.com 2005-11-09 01:06 am (UTC)(link)
Beka and Bel exchanged significant looks at the words 'female coffee urn' and 'best friend/fuckbuddy' (http://www.livejournal.com/community/fandomhigh/336793.html?thread=16206745#t16206745) then they both looked at Angelus.

[identity profile] notstakedyet.livejournal.com 2005-11-09 01:17 am (UTC)(link)
Angelus looked back, his expression clearly indicating Yeah, I know what I said.
demonbelthazor: (Default)

[personal profile] demonbelthazor 2005-11-09 01:24 am (UTC)(link)
Confused, Belthazor leaned back, hands raised and open in the classic "I'm not touching anything" pose.

[identity profile] valentine-tart.livejournal.com 2005-11-09 01:25 am (UTC)(link)
She smiled, eyes flashing with mirth. "Because I've been honing my wits with Daddy the Master?"

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