Concepts of Justice and The Law [Period 4, Class #14, Apr 13]

[glasses-justice.livejournal.com]

Alex was not quite her usual self today, but she was making a valiant effort as she entered class and nodded at her students.

"This is our last regular class together," she said. "Next week, there's a final. So today's topic is going to be short, so we can get to any final review you guys might want to cover."

And also because Alex was drained, and most of her students didn't seem much better off.

"Today's topic is cruel and unusual punishment. When the law is punitive, when the state wants to make examples out of dissidents, sometimes the result is the most painful and tortuous hardship that can be handed out. Order the convict to do manual labor, or be whipped publicly. Execute him in such a gruesome fashion that you're sure everyone else watching is terrified of the same thing being applied to them."

Or just break them psychologically. It was like Alex's syllabus was working against her.

"As a result, as we move towards justice and away from vengeance, many systems place in restrictions against cruel and unusual punishment. This means excessive punishment for minor infractions -- say, executing someone who stole your lunch -- as well as outlawing certain acts entirely. At this point, capital punishment was changed with an eye towards humane killing, if there is such a thing. Instant, painless death, as much as could be guaranteed, instead of drawn-out public suffering. All the same, many detractors believe any state-sponsored killing violates this rule."

Alex ran one hand through her hair. "Guys, I'm sorry. I'm not on my game today. This topic deserves a better treatment than I'm giving it, but this will have to do for today. Let's talk about cruel and unusual punishment, and then cover any review questions you might have. If there's time left, we can ... talk about your kids."

Entirely professional, that. But somehow it seemed like cruel and unusual punishment to try to have a rigorous class today.

Comments

Sign In - JST14

[glasses-justice.livejournal.com]

Wibbling over your missing kids. Or celebrating that they are gone and/or that you didn't have any.

Re: Sign In - JST14

[bitten_notshy]

Jack Priest

Re: Sign In - JST14

[therewaslife]

Nobody Owens

During the Lecture - JST14

[glasses-justice.livejournal.com]

Take notes. Wonder what's gotten into Alex. Be too busy missing your young'ns to care.

Re: During the Lecture - JST14

[bitten_notshy]

Jack frowned slightly as he listened and took notes. He understood some people were upset by the visiting children (though, selfishly, he had to admit he was far more unsettled by what Felix had told him about his own future than he had been to send his children home the night before) but going to work as obviously off one's stride as Alex was struck him as unprofessional at best.

Perhaps, he thought, it was different if you were a woman, or if you were older. He shrugged off the train of inquiry and devoted himself to the study of justice.

Re: During the Lecture - JST14

[therewaslife]

While Bod hadn't had any children, he could certainly understand quick attachments and the sadness that came when they were gone. He took a few notes but mostly just listened and tried to be respectful of those that had children leave.

Re: During the Lecture - JST14

[joan-notjane.livejournal.com]

Joan wondered if her teacher had had an upsetting child show up. Though she wasn't sure any child could be more upsetting than Raven's creepy child. Her kid had been kind of awesome, even though finding out her alternate self was pregnant was a little unsettling. And she liked Jess enough but she didn't imagine them ever actually getting together so that made Jared leaving a little melancholy.

Re: During the Lecture - JST14

[heromaniac]

Momoko was taking notes and really trying not to freak out over the final.

Discussion: Cruel and Unusual Punishment - JST14

[glasses-justice.livejournal.com]

Should there be rules against cruel and unusual punishment? How should the state make an example in especially heinous crimes? Which punishments should be forbidden, and which allowed? Should execution be considered cruel and unusual punishment, in all cases?

Re: Discussion: Cruel and Unusual Punishment - JST14

[bitten_notshy]

"I think torture -- defined as pain for the sake of pain -- is cruel and unusual, not to be too obvious about it," Jack reported crisply, hoping it would goad the professor out of her -- whatever it was.

"My only quibbles with execution have to do with the sentencing inequities around it, not in the punishment itself. Hanging or even the electric chair make for kinder deaths than what most murderers gave to their victims."

[OOC: Bigtime him-not-me on this one, yeah. I feel like I should give to Amnesty every time he goes off like this.]

Re: Discussion: Cruel and Unusual Punishment - JST14

[glasses-justice.livejournal.com]

"They are," Alex agreed easily. "It's a more humane death than they inflicted on their victims, to be certain. Shouldn't the state be held to a higher standard?"

(ooc: heee I know what you mean. Alex: big fan of death penalty, herself.)

Re: Discussion: Cruel and Unusual Punishment - JST14

[glacial_queen]

Karla was pretty sure this was one of the discussions where she should just stay pretty quiet about most of Kaeleer's penal codes. Shaving--the secondary definition of it anyway--would probably be very high on her classmate's lists of cruel and unusual punishments.

"For a people who have no laws against murder, outlawing state-ordered executions seems a silly thing," was all she said.

Re: Discussion: Cruel and Unusual Punishment - JST14

[glasses-justice.livejournal.com]

"Is all killing legal?" Alex asked. "Or is there a precise definition of murder that doesn't qualify?"

Re: Discussion: Cruel and Unusual Punishment - JST14

[bamf-tastic.livejournal.com]

"Civilized nations don't torture," Kurt insisted, as if it weren't up for discussion. "Especially not as a punishment. What happened to trying to rehabilitate criminals???"

Re: Discussion: Cruel and Unusual Punishment - JST14

[glasses-justice.livejournal.com]

"Do you believe that's the primary focus of the penal system?" she asked. "Rehabilitation? It's a goal set forth by people, but incarceration seems largely its own end."

Re: Discussion: Cruel and Unusual Punishment - JST14

[momslilassassin]

"What we see as a horrifying desecration can be another culture's way of honoring someone," Ben said, remembering the lesson of Senator A'Kla, "so I think making a blanket statement across a galaxy-wide government about what is forbidden is a bit of a fool's errand."

Re: Discussion: Cruel and Unusual Punishment - JST14

[blondecanary.livejournal.com]

"Torture, like Jack said, shouldn't be allowed. Publically televised executions-- that's over the line, too, I think." Dinah rested her chin on her hand. "The problem is that for especially heinous crimes, you don't want the state to descend to the same level. The only thing that can be done is to execute the guilty. But it isn't... it doesn't address what it does to the families of victims. It can't."

Discussion: Class Review - JST14

[glasses-justice.livejournal.com]

Was the midterm too hard, too confusing, too easy, or too anything else? Would people like the same format for the final, or a different approach entirely? Are there concepts which you'd like to cover again, from the past few weeks, to be sure that you're familiar with them? (You can either ask specific questions to address matters you're unclear on, or ask for a mini-review of one of the past topics as a whole.) Is there anything you believe should or shouldn't be covered? All related matters go here.

Discussion: Your AU Kids - JST14

[glasses-justice.livejournal.com]

Alex is not going to be sharing much -- if asked, she'll explain that she didn't have any AU kids, but beyond that, she's not elaborating further.

This thread is really just for all of you to dig out pictures and wibble and talk about how little Jennifer spent the weekend singing "I'm a Little Teapot" and here, look, you taped it and put it on YouTube.

No, seriously, if you need to commiserate (or celebrate, if you had a hellspawn that fled) with your fellow classmates, go to town.

Talk to the TAs - JST14

[glasses-justice.livejournal.com]

If they are here. They might have nifty parental stories.

Re: Talk to the TAs - JST14

[glacial_queen]

Karla was there, taking notes, where notes can be defined as 'doodles and scribbles relating to her daughters.' She wasn't sad, exactly. Just a bit melancholy. Truth be told, she'd never really thought about having children or a family, or even a Consort, really. Knowing that there were some versions of her that had those things was making her question herself about what she wanted and what her future might hold.

Re: Talk to the TAs - JST14

[bamf-tastic.livejournal.com]

Kurt was there, blinking at everything as if it was a bit new to him. Spending a weekend as an earthworm did that to a person.

Talk to Alex - JST14

[glasses-justice.livejournal.com]

She's here if you want to talk.

Re: Talk to Alex - JST14

[glacial_queen]

Karla paused by Alex's desk as her classmates filed out. "Professor?" she asked, once everyone had left. "It isn't my place to ask, but...is everything all right?"

OOC - JST14

[glasses-justice.livejournal.com]

My apologies for emo-class. Sometimes, you've gotta roll with it.