http://glasses-justice.livejournal.com/ ([identity profile] glasses-justice.livejournal.com) wrote in [community profile] fandomhigh2010-04-06 05:48 am
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Concepts of Justice and The Law [Period 4, Class #13, Apr 6]

"As you've certainly realized by now," Alex began, "I'm fond of raising issues in this class that seem straightforward at first, but become anything but once we explore. This week is no exception: we're going to talk about something well-intentioned in theory that has problematic implications. Our topic is Victims' Rights."

Conveniently, that was written on the board, and underlined.

"We've talked in the past about what rights the accused may have, in the hypothetical society we're discussing. The right to counsel, or the right to be charged in a timely manner, and so forth. Many victims of violent crimes feel slighted. The criminal gets all these rights, they'll say: where are their rights? As the victim, shouldn't they have larger roles in this piece?

"The Victims' Rights movements varies in its scope and its aims. On one end, you have people who wish to be fully informed about the process, consulted by the prosecution, and given the respect and dignity to which they are due. On the other, you have those who argue there should be three parties in the courtroom -- the defendant, the prosecution, and the victim, all with separate legal counsel arguing the relevant points. Some believe that the victim should be able to veto any sentence or plea agreement which he or she feels is insufficient, or to interfere with the timeline of the trial.

"As a prosecutor, I speak for the victims, but I also speak for justice. Justice isn't vengeance. Justice also isn't emotional, while many victims quite understandably are. A grieving father may push for capital punishment, in a case where the prosecution feels it isn't warranted. A battered wife may reconcile with her abusive spouse and ask the prosecution to drop the charges. As the victims, should their wishes be the ultimate say? What if the grieving father had asked us to chop up the defendant and boil him in hot oil?

"The rights of the accused protect an individual from the full weight of the government. A defendant's rights must never be compromised, or we risk tipping the scales of Blackstone's Formulation -- having ten innocent men imprisoned lest one guilty man goes free, and not the reverse. But clearly the victim has rights, and their voice should be heard and given full consideration by the court. So what are those rights, and how will they affect our hypothetical trial?"

Re: Sign In - JST13

[identity profile] ihaveniceteeth.livejournal.com 2010-04-06 11:34 am (UTC)(link)
Gwen Cooper
therewaslife: (↓ | just an emo boy)

Re: Sign In - JST13

[personal profile] therewaslife 2010-04-06 11:39 am (UTC)(link)
Nobody Owens

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[identity profile] joan-notjane.livejournal.com 2010-04-06 11:50 am (UTC)(link)
Joan Girardi

Re: During the Lecture - JST13

[identity profile] joan-notjane.livejournal.com 2010-04-06 11:52 am (UTC)(link)
Joan had mixed feelings on this subject so she was curious to see what her classmates thought.

Re: Discussion - Victims' Rights - JST13

[identity profile] joan-notjane.livejournal.com 2010-04-06 11:54 am (UTC)(link)
"I don't think the victim should participate in the trial beyond their testimony," Joan said. "They are being represented by the prosecution, so it's not like they don't have any representation at all. But I do think the victims should be allowed to speak before the judge before sentencing if there is a conviction."

Re: Discussion - What Measure a Victim - JST13

[identity profile] joan-notjane.livejournal.com 2010-04-06 11:55 am (UTC)(link)
"I'm pretty sure that last scenario falls under justifiable homicide," Joan remarked. "Even if he's not actively abusing her at the time she shoots him, she has reasonable fear for her life and well being."
bitten_notshy: ([spec] upside down + tired)

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[personal profile] bitten_notshy 2010-04-06 12:58 pm (UTC)(link)
Jack Priest
bitten_notshy: ([neu] hood up)

Re: Discussion - Victims' Rights - JST13

[personal profile] bitten_notshy 2010-04-06 01:08 pm (UTC)(link)
"I think a victim has the right to medical care, and they should have the right to sue for financial compensation in a civil court," Jack said. "But bringing them into the courtroom as parties with their own voice feels closer to vengeance than to justice for me. Most people find whatever happened to them worse than anything comparable that happened to anyone else -- I wouldn't expect victims to bring the perspective an attorney has."

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[identity profile] rocksthescarf.livejournal.com 2010-04-06 01:34 pm (UTC)(link)
Chuck Bass

Re: During the Lecture - JST13

[identity profile] rocksthescarf.livejournal.com 2010-04-06 01:43 pm (UTC)(link)
Chuck was drawing little stick-figures but they weren't part of a courtroom drama. Not yet, anyway. Chuck could easily send stick-figure Serena to jail and not feel like he was being OOC with the story.

Let's be honest, this whole drawing thing was mostly an excuse to keep his head down.

Re: Sign In - JST13

[identity profile] bamf-tastic.livejournal.com 2010-04-06 02:18 pm (UTC)(link)
Kurt Wagner

Re: During the Lecture - JST13

[identity profile] bamf-tastic.livejournal.com 2010-04-06 02:19 pm (UTC)(link)
Kurt chewed on his pen thoughtfully as he took notes.

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[identity profile] not-jaded-yet.livejournal.com 2010-04-06 02:22 pm (UTC)(link)
Jennifer Walters

Re: Discussion - Victims' Rights - JST13

[identity profile] not-jaded-yet.livejournal.com 2010-04-06 02:29 pm (UTC)(link)
"I agree," Jennifer said. "The entire point of having a judge and a jury and a prosecutor is to make the trial about justice and not revenge."

Re: Discussion - Victims' Rights - JST13

[identity profile] bamf-tastic.livejournal.com 2010-04-06 02:33 pm (UTC)(link)
"I, um... I don't know..." Kurt answered. "I mean, if the prosecution does a really bad job, or sweeps the crime under the rug, or the judge is biased, or something like that, the victim deserves a way to fix it? But... We've been talking all term about how hard it is to make sure justice is done. How is this not just going to mess that all up?"

Re: Speak to the TAs - JST13

[identity profile] bamf-tastic.livejournal.com 2010-04-06 02:35 pm (UTC)(link)
Kurt was there, although not smiling all that much. He had his fingers twined in his hair and looked kind of agonized by the topic of the day.

Re: Discussion - What Measure a Victim - JST13

[identity profile] bamf-tastic.livejournal.com 2010-04-06 02:50 pm (UTC)(link)
"What happens if one of the victims is unreasonable?" Kurt asked in response. "I mean, someone who wants payback isn't going to think rationally about what punishment the criminal deserves. Or whether there's enough proof to prove he did it. Or anything like that."

He sighed. "If an abused wife shoots her husband, he's the victim, ja. And shooting him wasn't right, and the wife should probably be punished. But not too badly, because SHE'S also the victim, and she was the victim first, and she was probably right to shoot him..." He frowned. "It's just all messy..."
weetuskenraider: (Sleeping (Angstily))

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[personal profile] weetuskenraider 2010-04-06 03:25 pm (UTC)(link)
Tahiri Veila

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